What if making a wish wasn’t just wishful thinking?
In this episode of Plot Twist Radio, I sit down with Brownell Landrum to explore the fascinating intersection of storytelling, science, and something a little more… cosmic.
Brownell is a writer who blends fiction, metaphysics, and real scientific research to explore what she calls the art and science of wishing. From neuroplasticity and the brain’s reticular activating system to the idea of “cosmic collaboration,” this conversation dives into whether manifestation is just mindset—or something more.
We talk about:
✨ The difference between wishes, goals, and prayer
✨ How science plays a role in intention and manifestation
✨ Why repetition rewires your brain to find opportunities
✨ The balance between control and surrender
✨ And how storytelling can actually expand the way we think about reality
Whether you’re a believer, a skeptic, or just curious, this episode will challenge the way you think about intention—and maybe even make you look at your own wishes a little differently.
🎧 Listen now and decide for yourself… is there science behind the magic?
If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to follow, rate, and share Plot Twist Radio.
Where to find Brownell:
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Welcome to Plot Twist Radio, the show where creativity,
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storytelling, and the unpredictable path of the
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creative life all collide. I'm your host, Aaron Egnatz.
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Welcome back to Plot Twist Radio, where every story takes a
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turn you didn't see coming. Today's episode dives into a
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space where storytelling meets science, and maybe even
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something a little cosmic. I'm joined by a writer who has
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explored everything from fiction and screen writing to the
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fascinating intersection of wishing, neuroscience, and what
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she calls cosmic collaboration. From building imaginative worlds
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filled with wish cafes and metaphysical mysteries to
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grounding those ideas in real scientific concepts like
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neuroplasticity. And she brings a perspective
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that challenges both skeptics and believers alike.
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If you've ever wondered whether there's more behind attention,
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manifestation, or even the simple act of making a wish,
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this conversation is going to take you down a few intriguing
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rabbit holes. So let's get into it.
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Hello and welcome to the show. Thanks.
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I'm so excited to be here. I know we have a lot of
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different things we can talk about and I've I've followed
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your show. I think everybody, hopefully
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everybody else is a fan and I'm just looking forward to getting
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to know you better and sharing whatever you want to hear.
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All right, that sounds good and thank you.
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So your work, as we were just talking your it blends
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storytelling, science, and something cosmic.
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Yes. I have to ask, what first drew
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you to that space, that world? Yeah, well, I was writing.
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I've written both fiction and nonfiction.
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My first book was nonfiction. It's called 5 Reasons Why Bad
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Things Happen. And then I got into fiction and
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got loving fiction and then wrote screenplays and a bunch of
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other things. And I was writing a kind of a
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semi autobiographical novel and it's called a love story to the
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universe. And it's, it's this kind of, you
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know, definitely a kind of magical realism kind of world
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where it's written in four parts and it's kind of semi
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autographical, like I said. And as I was writing it, the
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4th, the 4th little section or part of it, I was creating this
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world I call upstairs where wishes are sorted and granted.
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And you can kind of imagine that there are wish fairies that are
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deciding like, oh, there's somebody made a wish.
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Now we have to decide and route it.
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And there's like this whole ecosystem with the Cosmic Wish
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Cafe and a comedy club and a History of Wishes museum and all
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these kind of things. So I was just in this, you know,
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fanciful world because I like to tell people like, I'm a
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storyteller, not a scientist. So I want to make that clear,
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Right? And so I was writing that world.
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And then one night I'm listening to a lecture on neuroplasticity,
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you know, because that's some weird thing about me.
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And, you know, OK, when I can't sleep, I listen to science
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lectures. And and I was like, wait a
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minute, is there science in wishing?
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And so that's what led me to write the art and science of
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wishing where I cite over 70 different scientists and went
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crazy with like all the aspects of wishing.
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And then I don't know if you want to get into the cosmic
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thing or the how that all weeds in as far as the use of cosmic,
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but I'll let you, I'll let you guide you.
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Tell me what you want to know. All right, that sounds good.
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Actually, I do want to get into the cosmic because I find it so
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fascinating. I don't necessarily understand
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it. I tried, I too, but I'm so
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fascinated by it. I find myself going deeper and
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deeper into those rabbit holes. Maybe I'm trying to get further
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away from reality as of, you know, the world right now, but
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I'm so fascinated. So yeah.
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What would you like to tell me about it?
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Because I'm an open book. I'm ready to learn.
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Yeah, I think we have that in common.
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I I like to consider myself like this explorer of metaphysical
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mysteries, like I'm and when, when you're an explorer, you're
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always exploring, right? I mean, you think you have the
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answer and then there's another answer and you want to look at
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more answers. And so I think that's kind of
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the aspect of what happens with us.
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But it's first I had to kind of decide, well, what is the
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difference between a wish, a prayer, and a goal, right?
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Because, you know, they had to put it in that kind of context.
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And I don't know if you want to guess, Do you want to kind of
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guess what that is or you want me to just tell you?
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I will let you. I think I'll let you tell me.
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I don't want to put you on the spot, but basically it's
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probably what you were going to say, which is a goal is usually
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something in your control, right?
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It's like you set the plan, you make this goal, that's going to
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happen. Then a prayer is usually
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completely opposite. It's something out of your
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control. So you're just releasing it to
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some sort of outside energy, however you want to define that.
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And that could be religion or could be some other kind of
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element. And so that was kind of the
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framework. And then a wish is somewhere
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beautifully in between. It's got, you know, yes, some of
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it's in your control. And then, yes, you know, there's
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there's an element that's outside your control.
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And so the kind of the principle in the book is how do you make
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take your wish and you turn a wish into what I call a cosmic
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wish. OK, so this is where the cosmic
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part comes in. And if you look up Webster
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Dictionary and you look at the definition of cosmic, you'll see
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that it's kind of three parts, you know, And the first part is
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universal or the universe, right?
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The second part of the definition of cosmic is
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metaphysical or spiritual. And the third part is that it's
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comprehensive. And so I'm thinking, OK, this
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idea of a cosmic wish and, and how you turn a wish into a
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cosmic wish is when you start applying the science, when you
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start understanding the science of wishing, then you can bring
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more into your control. And yet there's still always
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this idea of what I call cosmic collaboration.
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There is this knowledge that I don't know if you've ever seen
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the movie Hitch with Will Smith and Ava Mendez, right?
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And he talks about kissing. And I just love the scene where
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he's like, OK with kissing. You know, he's telling the guy,
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here's your advice on how to kiss a girl.
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And he says, you know, go in 90% and then she has to come the
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other 10%, right? If you remember, that scene is a
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cute scene. And well, I think it's like that
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with our cosmic collaboration. Like there is a part that is out
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of our control. And the fun thing about that is
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it's also could be defined. And thing I love about wishing
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is that it can be, you can be super religious and still be
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intuition. You can be spiritual and not
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religious and still understand the concept of wishing.
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And you can be skeptical and pure science base.
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And you're defining that collaboration as something like
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non locality or quantum entanglement or, you know, other
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kinds of maybe they're on the frontier of science, right?
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Some of them are getting more and more steady, but there is
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something outside of you. So that's the cosmic
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collaboration that works in it. So as a long answer to a quick
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question, but that's. Fascinating though I and I think
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that you bring up a really good point because you know, you do
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have those 3 factions of people. You have the ones that are
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absolutely let's manifest. You have the ones that are like
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I don't know, and then you have the ones that are like, no,
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absolutely not. You know, we I get that a lot
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with ghost hunting too. How do you how do you tell the
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non believers? Like what?
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What do you tell them? I tell I talk about the science,
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I talk about the studies. And you know, even then, like if
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somebody's listening and they're like, I'm super into science and
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this woman's crazy. I'm like, good.
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Tell me what you think what you know, like I'm like you, I want
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to learn more. I I'm not going to pretend to be
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the be all end all. I like gathering more
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information and fine tune it. So if they're a skeptic, I even
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have a chapter on fun with skeptics because it's like,
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bring it on and help me test it. And let's look at these theories
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and let's go through the rigorous, you know, evaluation
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of this. Like I'm I'm totally into that.
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And then just, and then also understand the science, because
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I think that's, that's the difference with some of the, you
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know, more manifestation type of practices is, is it just says,
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oh, you have to believe it and that's all you need and it's
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going to happen. And that can, it certainly can
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work that way, but there's probably a lot more nuance to it
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than that, you know? And so when you start
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understanding the nuance, like the science of the three selves
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and the science, you know, whether it's anything from
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anthropology, you know, because like one of the things I like to
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say is every time you make a wish, you engage over a dozen
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sciences and people don't realize that.
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And that usually will stop those skeptics and go, OK, I want to
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hear about that. I want to know what that is, you
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know? Yeah, now I'm picking up the
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science. This is like in my head, I tried
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to go through. That's true, though, and that's
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an excellent answer. What do you think is something
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that people often misunderstand when it comes to these
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intentions, this manifestation? I think that like I said, some
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of the things that are manifestation is people think,
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oh, I can just, you know, blink my eyes.
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I also think that there are some kind of beliefs and this is one
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of the things I really loved getting into in the book is the
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four responses to a wish and that it's yes, no, wait or
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something better, right? And, and a lot of people think,
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Oh, it's yes, or you did it wrong and not necessarily right.
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I mean, there are nuances. Sometimes yes isn't the best
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answer. You know, you may sit there and
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wish, wish, wish that you can have a Ferrari in your driveway,
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but is that really going to make you happy, right?
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Or is that the best thing that you can be putting your wishing
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behind? So when you start realizing the
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the what's out of your control, then you can start understanding
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the science going, yes. But if I repeat my wish, then
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I'm going to activate the reticular activating system and
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the neuroplasticity in my brain is going to find that answer,
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right? I mean, I'm going to be
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searching for the answer. So it's not like oh, poof, out
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of nowhere. It's like, oh wait a minute, I
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can train my brain to solve that problem.
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Very interesting this is this is really intriguing to me.
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We could go down this path for a while.
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I knew we had. We could probably go a lot of
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different paths. Absolutely.
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So I was doing a little bit of stalking as well on your your
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profiles and stuff, and I noticed your motto, and I love
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your motto. Lose yourself in the fiction.
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Find yourself in the truth. What truth were you discovering
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when you wrote that? I realized that it was so
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powerful. Like I said, I started out
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writing nonfiction, right? And then I started getting into
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fiction, and I realized that first of all, you have a lot
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more freedom with fiction. You can go down any road.
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You can create a magical world where wishes are answered and
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everything like that. And also that in fiction, it
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opens people's minds more than nonfiction.
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They can suspend, I mean, and there's actually science.
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I did the research. There's actually science on how
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they suspend the disbelief, right?
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So it's like you don't have to believe in time travel to enjoy
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back to the future, but it does get your brain kind of thinking
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in different pathways. So that's really it is like, and
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I there's you know, it's a writer and I'm sure you know,
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this is there's two big compliments. 1 is I couldn't put
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the book down, but I stayed up all night, right.
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And the other, well, three compliments that one, I've read
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it more than once is the another big one.
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And then the set, the third one is I kept reading the same page
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because my brain was just like, I'm this is so deep and I need
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to absorb it. And this is really cool stuff.
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And I'm like, I'm going to I'm going to sit with this for a
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while. It's going to take me.
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And I've got all these questions about this concept in there.
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So it's I think that's what happens with your brain.
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Where's it nonfiction? A lot of people aren't going to
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pick up books on the, you know, out there stuff that that I
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might write on a on a nonfiction basis.
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But on a fiction basis, they they go, yeah, well, this sounds
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like a fun adventure. I mean, like Outlander, you
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don't have to believe in falling through rocks to chain go
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through time. But it does, you know, does tell
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you a good story, but it also opens your mind, like under
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possibilities. Absolutely.
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And I think reading in general just opens your mind.
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When I was younger, I would not read, I would not do it, would
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not pick up a book for anything. But as I got older, you know, I
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think I discovered Jane Austen first with Pride and Prejudice,
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and I immediately escaped into her world, you know?
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And if you kind of put yourself there, you know, it does expand
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your mind. Obviously, the story is not
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exactly real, but, you know, it is expanding your mind.
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It's helping you think. It's helping you grow.
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And that inspired me to become an author.
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So, I mean, we're just so powerful.
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Yeah, yeah. And it, it also, you know, they
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say, I mean, if you forgive the expression now, and I think it
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might have been Dickens who said it, but something like, you
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know, about the power of reading, you know, breaks down
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barriers that we start looking at different time periods or
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different nationalities or different lifestyles And, and so
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many it, it expands your world in that way so that you can
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start. It builds empathy.
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It does all kinds of really beautiful things because you can
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read something and go, OK, I've never been in prison.
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But then I read this book of this man that was in prison for,
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you know, 26 years or whatever. I'm wrongly accused, you know,
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all these kinds of things. And you're like, OK, wait a
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minute. You know, where I'm transported
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to, you know, Victorian England or whatever that was.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it can really, it can
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really, you know, help you in that regard, I think.
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Absolutely, it really can. So as far as your writing
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process goes, do you prefer, I think I already know the answer
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to this, writing fiction or non fiction well?
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Well, I throw in some fiction and stories in the non fiction,
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right, because I have like these little stories that I'll throw
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in. And like for example, on the
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wishing, one of the stories I talk about is imagine you were
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in the Black Plague, right in the Middle Ages and there are
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people dying. 50% of the population is dying.
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They're literally rotting corpses in the street.
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Nobody knew what it was and people stopped wishing.
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And Can you imagine a world with no wishing where everybody
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stopped wishing, right? So to tell it is a story, you
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know, and then there's more to that story.
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But to tell us a story, you're like, OK, now you're bringing it
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home, right? This is not just me saying, oh,
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wishing is important in this reason, you know, so adding the
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storyteller element does help. And, you know, people say,
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what's your favorite book? And it's always the one I'm
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writing. And you're probably like that
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too. It's like, OK, yeah, it's like
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the one I'm right in the middle of right now.
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That's the one that is the my favorite.
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So it's, you know, soapy's choice, I think, right.
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You know, I mean, I love the imagination and and, and, and
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fiction, right? I mean, I love conjuring worlds
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and that kind of thing, but I like it all.
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Yeah, and I like, I like the balance that you have.
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I find it so much harder to write non fiction.
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I've gotten away from it just because, like you said,
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sometimes it's hard for people to hang out in that genre, you
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know what I mean? A lot more people want the
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fantasy and everything. But I find that books you know
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about like the Cosmics or ghost Hunting, because of me, I find
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those interesting, but they are hard to write for, at least for
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me, because I like, I don't know, I guess I'm always living
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in a fantasy world. Maybe that's why.
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Well, I think it's, I think there's a bunch of things with
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it. One is it's, it's more left
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brain than right brain, right. And so you have to pull a logic
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to it. You have to pull those kinds of
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threads, threads and nonfiction. And in fiction, you know,
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whether you're a plotter or pancer, there's still a pantsing
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that goes with it that you get in a flow.
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And that flow is happening, right?
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I mean, as an author, I know you probably know what that's like,
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too. It's like when you finish the
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book, you're like, OK, wait a minute, that flow's gone.
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And I'm where is it? Because I love that, that
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energy. And that is different.
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You don't really get that as much with the nonfiction, right?
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You're like, OK, did I make my point?
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And was it, you know, did do I think the reader enjoyed it?
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And is it going to help give him something that's going to change
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their life? Yes.
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OK, I can do that, you know, But you can't write worlds of magic.
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And, you know, I mean, I do. Obviously it started with this
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magical world, but you know, I get to throw a little of that in
00:16:00
there, I guess. Oh yeah, absolutely.
00:16:02
So you brought up the plotter of Panther.
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Which one are you? In in nonfiction, I mean in
00:16:10
fiction, my first novels that I wrote, I wrote them totally is
00:16:13
Panzer like I just I well, I knew the end of the first book
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and then I just and then I pantsed it from the beginning
00:16:21
all the way to get to the end and and it's a lot faster,
00:16:25
right. But when I wrote, I had a
00:16:27
trilogy come out a year and a half ago that's called We Meet
00:16:32
Again. And it's this epic reincarnation
00:16:34
mystery and love story about a famous couple reunited today to
00:16:37
fulfill a prophecy that will change the world, right?
00:16:40
This kind of epic story. And that one, I, I started out
00:16:44
thinking it was going to be a television series.
00:16:46
And I actually wrote it with that kind of flow in mind and
00:16:50
that kind of story building in mind, thinking, hey, if it's
00:16:53
this many episodes, this is how it's going to structure.
00:16:56
And with something that deep of a mystery, I had to know where
00:17:01
it's going to go. It's kind of like my one of my
00:17:02
favorite TV shows is Lost. I don't know if you were a fan.
00:17:05
Of. But it's like, you know, you
00:17:07
know, they were pantsing a little bit, you know, I mean,
00:17:10
like, and so you're like, OK. And as a writer, you're like,
00:17:13
they did a really good job of pulling together the plot, but
00:17:16
they had to do some pantsing because they didn't know what
00:17:17
the end was going to be, right? But you sit there and think, OK,
00:17:20
this one I had to know details and whenever.
00:17:24
And in those books I had fun with, and if I'm going to give
00:17:28
you a description of a detail, it means something.
00:17:31
There's no description that isn't doesn't have a lot of
00:17:35
either Easter egg meetings or some sort of meaning to it.
00:17:38
So that took a lot more prepping and planning to do it right.
00:17:42
Sure, I can imagine. Yeah, I, I have not evolved into
00:17:47
the plotter territory yet. I need to get there.
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But you know, it's like every time I sit down to start
00:17:52
something, I think I have a general idea.
00:17:54
The story just goes completely off the tracks.
00:17:58
And no, I'm not doing that. You know, I'm going to go over
00:18:01
here and he's like, OK. Exactly.
00:18:03
But it's also like, I'm sure you probably know the Liz Gilbert
00:18:07
book Big Magic, You know, where she talks about these ideas are
00:18:10
there. And we're like, we're the
00:18:12
conduit to bring them out in the world.
00:18:14
So sometimes they have their own story and they just tell us what
00:18:16
to write. And it's a little hard to plot
00:18:19
that, you know, sometimes that flow, you get in that flow.
00:18:21
So I mean, I think it's all good.
00:18:23
I think all avenues are good. Absolutely.
00:18:27
So if someone listening could take one small action today to
00:18:30
shift their life, what would you tell them?
00:18:33
Well, I mean, like I said, my, my big focus right now is about
00:18:36
is about the art and science of wishing.
00:18:38
And I think that if they could get what I call the three piece
00:18:42
peaceful, positive and purposeful, and they could make
00:18:46
their wish with that energy and make an end wish that includes
00:18:50
those three things every day, they'll see major change.
00:18:54
Sure. So where can listeners find you
00:18:56
and be a part of what you're building?
00:18:58
Because it is quite incredible. I've got all kinds of things.
00:19:01
I'm the only Brownell Landrum in the world, so it's pretty easy
00:19:04
to find me. And you can obviously find all
00:19:06
my books on Amazon as well as the other, you know, most of the
00:19:09
other outlets like Apple Books and Google Play and, and those
00:19:13
kinds of things. I have a Facebook group called
00:19:17
Life is a Trip. And it's kind of reincarnation
00:19:19
and spiritual stories and that kind of stuff.
00:19:21
So please feel free to join our group.
00:19:23
And I'm on all the social medias.
00:19:26
You know, it's easy. It's I can't hide.
00:19:28
They're being the only person with my name means I can't hide.
00:19:31
This is true. It is a very unique name.
00:19:33
Yeah, I like it. I love it.
00:19:35
I love unique. Well, you'll like this.
00:19:38
I was in a writers group and they said, and I thought, let me
00:19:40
go in there and ask, you know, I posted anonymously, said if you
00:19:44
saw a writer with this name, what would you think?
00:19:46
And they came back and said African American middle-aged man
00:19:50
who's a college professor in Michigan.
00:19:52
Slightly different I was. Like, I like him.
00:19:56
Yeah, he sounds like he sounds like a cool guy.
00:19:59
Maybe he's your science professor.
00:20:00
You never know. Yeah, I just.
00:20:03
Thought that was so good. That is awesome.
00:20:05
A little a little different than who you are, but it's a yeah,
00:20:08
look. These ships there.
00:20:09
But it was fun, yeah. I love that.
00:20:12
Well, I will make sure that all of your links are in the show
00:20:15
notes and I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me
00:20:18
today, especially about the cosmics because I am so
00:20:21
intrigued. I'm going to go research now.
00:20:23
Yeah. Well, thanks.
00:20:24
Yeah, it's really, it's really fun and I've I've had a great
00:20:27
time. Thank you for having me.
00:20:28
Thank you. I don't know about you, but I
00:20:30
feel like we just opened about 10 different doors into ideas.
00:20:33
I'm definitely going to keep thinking about whether you're
00:20:36
someone who leans into the science, the spiritual, or
00:20:39
somewhere in between. There's something really
00:20:41
powerful in the idea that we're not just passive observers in
00:20:45
our lives, we're participants, maybe even collaborators.
00:20:49
If you want to explore more of her work, I'll have all of her
00:20:51
links in the show notes so you can dive deeper into her books,
00:20:55
her writing, and everything she's building.
00:20:57
And if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to follow rate and
00:21:01
share Plot Twist Radio. It helps more than you know and
00:21:04
keeps these conversations going. Until next time, keep
00:21:07
questioning, keep exploring, and remember, sometimes the biggest
00:21:11
plot twist happened when you start looking at the world just
00:21:14
a little bit differently.