What really happens when a first-time author lands a publishing deal… and it turns into a nightmare?
In this episode of Plot Twist Radio, I sit down with author Isis Chandler to talk about her debut novel What Draws Us Apart, her love of storytelling, and the unexpected (and shocking) reality she faced in the publishing world.
Isis opens up about:
- Her journey from lifelong storyteller to published author
- The truth about working with small publishers
- Red flags every author should watch for before signing a contract
- How she reclaimed her rights and turned to self-publishing
- The inspiration behind her romance-driven, character-focused storytelling
- Writing with her husband and blending romance with fantasy (“romantasy”)
We also dive into the creative process—outlining vs. “pantser” writing, building authentic characters, and why storytelling can be one of the most powerful forms of escape.
If you’re an aspiring author, a fan of romance or fantasy, or just someone who loves a behind-the-scenes look at the writing world—this episode is a must-listen.
📚 Featured Book: What Draws Us Apart by Isis Chandler
🎥 Follow Isis: Sci-Fi and Romanticy Fans (YouTube) + @IsisChandlerAuthor
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Welcome to Plot Twist Radio, the show where creativity,
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storytelling, and the unpredictable path of the
00:00:05
creative life all collide. I'm your host, Aaron Egnatz.
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Stories. Have the power to transport us.
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To pull. Us out of reality, into worlds
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where anything feels possible. But what happens when the person
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creating those worlds has lived through a story of their own?
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1. Filled with passion, setbacks,
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resilience, and ultimately taking back control.
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Today on Plot Twist Radio, I'm joined by author and storyteller
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Isis Chandler, a debut novelist whose journey into publishing
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didn't exactly go the way she expected, but May.
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Have led her exactly. Where she needed to be.
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From growing up immersed in art and storytelling, to building a
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creative life with her husband, to navigating the darker side of
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the publishing industry and coming up stronger on the other
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side, Isis shares what it really takes to chase a creative dream
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in a world that doesn't always make it easy.
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We talk about our debut novel, what draws us apart, the
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emotional truths behind her characters, the realities of
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self-publishing, and why sometimes the best stories come
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from the moments that nearly break us.
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So settle in, because this is one of those conversations that
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reminds us why stories matter and.
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Why the people who? Tell them matter even more.
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Hello and welcome to the show. I thank you so much for having
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me. Absolutely.
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Can you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?
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Yes, thank you. My name is Isis Chandler.
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I am a author, first time author, working on another book
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with my husband. My book, What Draws Us Apart, is
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my debut novel. I'm very lucky because my
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husband has a master's in creative writing.
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So I have like a free editor and I have a lot of other author
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friends. My like one of my closest
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friends, Lauren Cutney, who is also an author, is always there,
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you know, to help and give feedback.
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So, you know, I'm very lucky. I've got like a nice support
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network. But yeah, this was picked up by
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a publisher, which turned out to be a nightmare.
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And then I got the right back and self published.
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And so I'm just very much a story addict.
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I'm like, I've never like when horrible things have happened to
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my life. I've never gotten into, you
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know, any sort of addictive substances other than stories.
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You know, I remember like when 911 happened.
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I'm just like, I'm just going to live in Middle Earth for like a
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couple of years. Just like, don't bother me.
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I don't want to be on Earth. I'm I'm, I'm chilling with
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proto. I've always just gotten so
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intensely absorbed into stories my entire childhood.
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And you know, I mean my whole life.
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It's never gone away. I've never lost that part of my,
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my childhood immaturity, I guess.
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And so now I write my own stories.
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And then I also have a YouTube channel that I run with my
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husband that we review sci-fi and we're called sci-fi and
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romance fantasy fans. And we focus on sci-fi, fantasy
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and romance. Reviews of books, movies and
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television shows. Very cool.
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That sounds that sounds like relationship goals.
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My husband will go like nowhere, hear my writing.
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So I love he hates reading like in general, Like that's not his
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thing. And I'm like, come on, man.
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That's like what I do. It's just going to be hard.
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I'm sorry it. Can be, it can be.
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But you know, I guess it works for us.
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I don't pay attention to all of his stuff, so you know it works.
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Yeah, no, I don't have everything in common with my
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husband. He loves sports and he wants to
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talk about about football. And I hear Charlie Brown's
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teacher. I put him on the phone with my
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friend Lauren because she's talk to her.
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I don't care. I love that.
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So you have a strong background in both visual art.
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And video. What came first?
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For you, the storytelling or the art?
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Wow. Well, I start writing stories
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until after I got married and just being around my husband and
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like watching movies and shows and getting so passionate about
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like why it was good or why it could have been good and
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analyzing and changing it. So I didn't start writing
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stories until after I got married as an adult.
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The visual art, well, I was always a visual artist growing
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up. I mean, I was always in my room
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drawing and painting, and I took art classes all the way through
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high school and college and experimented with different
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mediums. And then I started video editing
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as a teenager. I had two VCRS in my living
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room. It was the 90s, OK, It was the
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90s. So when I would edit, we would
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have like all these videotapes, like stacked up, like up the
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ceiling and two BCRS and a sound mixer.
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And yeah, we called it the Den and it went in there.
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But me, that was like my editing room, you know, and I have this
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lengthy hour and a half documentary I've made in the 90s
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about teen idols that I edited with two VCR's that I like
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uncovered and cleaned up and uploaded onto my YouTube
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channel. Anyone is interested in watching
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that time capsule. So yeah, that was the beginning
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of my editing. It used to be two VCR's and, you
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know, knowing exactly how many, like, times to push the nudge
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button on the VCR control to set it up.
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So we recorded the next clip. You didn't record over the last
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clip. It, I mean, it was a technical
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nightmare compared to what we can do today on the computers.
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Right. I just got like the sense of 90s
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nostalgia. I miss that time period so much.
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But I do like the technology now and how it's a lot easier to.
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Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
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So you're mentioning your YouTube channel.
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What inspired you to start that? You say you run it with your
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husband, correct? Yeah, yeah.
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Well, I had a second YouTube channel that I ran for a while,
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but you know, I always wanted to talk about movies and TV shows
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and we're both so passionate about stories.
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This poor man. When Stranger Things ended and I
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was disappointed for a month, he got an earful.
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He didn't even want to watch my video review.
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I make him watch all their. He's in a lot of them.
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He's not all of them. But when, you know, whenever I
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upload anything, I make him watch just to get feedback on.
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And he was like, I've heard this a million times when I had like
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factual evidence to prove like why 11 sending was stupid.
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I was so mad at that ending. And so, yeah, when I like get
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disappointed by something, I remember even as like a kid, one
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of my warned another one of my friends not to go to the movies
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with me. Like don't go to the movies with
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him. You don't understand.
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It'll be 5 hours after you've gotten out of the movie and
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you'll be like doing something else and like, and then and, and
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but she'll be like, and I thought of a nut and she won't
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let it go and she'll go on it drive you.
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So that was, you know, I've always been like that.
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And so, yeah, just that that need to like talk about why
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could have been better. I don't know.
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It's kind of, it's always been a little bit obsessive for me.
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So I guess it was just a natural thing to transition that to a
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film review and, you know, story review channel.
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Absolutely yes. My daughter is obsessed with
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Stranger Things. She has me watching through it.
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Now we're on the fourth season. I do know what happens just
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because of Facebook, because Facebook, you know, they had, I
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accidentally clicked on a reel. I was like.
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No, no, no. But yeah, I'm not a fan of that
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ending neither, I'm not going to lie.
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I would think watch the season 4 and then make up your own ending
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for season 5. Gotcha.
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I've heard that a lot of people are just like this is not it.
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This is not. It's it's when you have the
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first season or the you know of a show or the first volume of
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your book, you could put anything in there you want.
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You can make anything up. Finales are hard.
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You got to wrap everything up that you've already introduced.
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You know, it's like every single character needs to have an arc.
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Every single plot point needs to be wrapped up.
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Finales are very difficult, you know, And you know, it really
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makes me like, love and respect the shows that do it well.
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But yeah, this, the Duffers were always about adding more
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characters, more dimensions and more pop points.
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And it's like, that's not how you write a finale, right?
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Not how you write a coach finale.
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You can. Write well.
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Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
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So let's transition over to your book.
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What can you tell us about it without giving spoilers?
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OK, without spoilers. Well, it's called What Throws Us
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Apart. It's about a girl named Kira who
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has really bad vision. She's based on my husband
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because when my husband was in the 4th grade, they took him to
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the eye doctor. The eye doctor said read the
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first number, first letter on the top of the chart.
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And my husband went, where is the chart?
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I couldn't even see it. And they're like, that's how bad
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his vision was. To this day, he's warming in an
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emergency, like we get out of the house and a fire, you have
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to drive because I won't be able to see it, you know?
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So he's struggled with that. And so she's also an artist.
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So she's like a hybrid between me and my husband.
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And then she meets this guy who she is so insecure about her
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thick glasses and her vision problems and something that
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happened when she was, you know, very young child that messed up
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her confidence. So she meets this guy, thinks
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he's way out of her league. First of all, she's a sophomore,
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he's a senior. So she's thinks he's never going
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to go for her. So she's just a kind of a shy
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person, doesn't want to take the chance.
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And I wrote it based upon my insecurities because my
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adolescence was so wasted by not doing things I want to think
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about like all the friends that could have made and guys I could
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have like dated and experiences I could have had.
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I didn't even go to my prom. I was like Ally Sheedy in The
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Breakfast Club, like the weird girl in the corner drawing that
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was me. And so it was like when you're
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so insecure and you know, self esteem, you miss out on so much.
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And so I really wanted to make it about that.
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But unfortunately, you know, I mean, they have everything in
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common in terms of like, he's a writer, she's an artist that's
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also based on me and my husband. So she can illustrate his
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stories, you know, and they just have everything in common.
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There's stuff about dysfunctional family backgrounds
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that they bond over. So they are like everyone, you
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know, can see that they're perfect for each other on this
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kind of like deep level. But her beautiful, popular older
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sister has no problem going after what she wants.
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And so sister kind of takes advantage of the older sister,
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takes advantage of the younger sister's insecurities.
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And then that's where the love triangle ensues.
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So it's gotten rave reviews from people who have read it.
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It's got like a 4.6 something on Goodreads and Amazon limited
00:10:21
reviews because I'm a first time author and it's been difficult
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to get our creators to keep their promise and actually
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reviews so many. I'm sure you got this experience
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or so many people say and then, you know, can you please, like
00:10:32
you said, you want like so yeah, people, people have read it who
00:10:36
you know, I loved it, but I'm in the in the author, you know,
00:10:39
first time author. I'm sure so many of you are like
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to the struggles. So, yeah, yeah.
00:10:45
It's an uphill battle, it really is.
00:10:47
And you're right, you can send an arcs of 50 people and you may
00:10:51
get like 6 people that actually. Put it up and.
00:10:54
You're like, come on. Yeah, I know exactly what you
00:10:57
mean with that. So how does your writing process
00:11:00
go? Are you, you know, are you an
00:11:02
outliner? Are you a pantser or you know,
00:11:05
somewhere in between? Both SO I outline, but then my I
00:11:12
was thinking of drawing class in high school and he gave me like
00:11:15
the best advice. And I think this this advice
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applies to all art forms. He said, well, you're drawing a
00:11:19
picture and you get obsessive with controlling it.
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This is my drawing it I'm the artist.
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I'm making you and you're going to do exactly the way I want you
00:11:27
to go. It never comes out good.
00:11:29
He said, step away from the drawing.
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Take a look, you know, across the room, See what it's
00:11:34
communicating to you, see what it's trying to turn into.
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Go get a snack, you know, take a break, you know, go to sleep and
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wake up the next day and then come back and take and look at
00:11:43
it again. Because he said the more you try
00:11:45
to control what you're creating, the worse it's going to be.
00:11:48
And I find that applies to writing too.
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I outline like religiously, but the outline is you can change
00:11:55
it. You know, there was a scene in
00:11:58
in this, for example, that I wanted to have where the younger
00:12:02
sister thought that he was going after her because she reminded
00:12:06
him of the older sister. But by the time I got that part
00:12:09
in the story, it was so obvious that the older sister's dynamic
00:12:14
with the boyfriend was not functional and everyone knew it.
00:12:16
And I'm like, this does the scene doesn't work anymore.
00:12:18
It just doesn't work. Also, I wanted her to be, you
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know, 18 by the time they got together to make it, you know,
00:12:26
you know, politically correct. But I couldn't stretch the story
00:12:29
anymore. I couldn't keep them apart
00:12:30
anymore and have it be realistic that they would still get back
00:12:33
together. It just it became like unnatural
00:12:36
to keep them apart any longer. And I was like, OK, they have to
00:12:39
get together now or this doesn't going to it isn't going to seem
00:12:42
realistic to keep them apart anymore.
00:12:43
So yes, I'm a religious outlier, but I also like the outline can
00:12:49
change. If it does anymore, cut it out,
00:12:52
you know, remove it. And I'm writing a book now with
00:12:54
my husband and we religiously outlined because when you're
00:12:57
writing with someone else, it's a lot harder.
00:13:01
You have to make sure you guys stay on track.
00:13:03
You have to make sure you both know where the story is going.
00:13:05
So we outline this religiously. But then I was going over it and
00:13:09
there were scenes that we intended to write later that I
00:13:11
kind of already wrote to the story naturally already.
00:13:15
And so it was kind of like, oh, I've already written this.
00:13:17
So I deleted 4 pages from the outline from the story we're
00:13:20
working on now. And it's just, it's, it's our
00:13:25
living thing, you know, outline to start because it's so nice to
00:13:29
have like that blueprint. It's so comforting, I think, to
00:13:32
know where the story is going, but let it evolve and change.
00:13:36
And then if you have to change the outline as you're writing, I
00:13:38
think that's perfectly fine. Oh yeah, absolutely.
00:13:41
I, I can't tell you how many stories I've started thinking
00:13:44
it's going to go a certain way, but for whatever reason, it
00:13:47
takes a hard left and we end up somewhere completely different
00:13:50
than where I thought I was starting.
00:13:51
It's just, I think it's the natural progression of writing.
00:13:54
I know. And I think as long as your
00:13:56
character arcs end up in the same place, as long as like the
00:14:00
overall message and the overall points in the overall arc is
00:14:04
like what you you know, it ends up like what you wanted it to
00:14:08
and where, you know, you intended it to go.
00:14:11
And, you know, as long as you know, all the details on the
00:14:13
story can change as long as they ultimately get there.
00:14:16
It's kind of how I feel about it.
00:14:17
Yeah, I know. And Speaking of your books,
00:14:23
yeah, I'm, I'm like 3/4 of the week through.
00:14:28
I wanted to before we got to this interview, but I didn't
00:14:30
have time, you know? I get Better Be Night and read
00:14:32
and then sometimes the cat wants attention and I have to put the
00:14:34
book down. So it's his fault.
00:14:35
Play hand. It's not my fault.
00:14:37
I love. That thank you for reading that.
00:14:39
That's that's my, my OG, you know, I was, I wrote that a few
00:14:44
years ago and I was like, am I going to put it out?
00:14:46
Am I not? And I finally was just like, I'm
00:14:49
just putting it out. It's time.
00:14:52
I'm, I'm really, really enjoying it.
00:14:53
I really like how your your character is the opposite of
00:14:56
mine. She's very confident.
00:14:58
Extremely yes, she. Is not.
00:15:00
Me at all like that is not me. You know, I really love that you
00:15:04
write contemporary and romanticism or magical realism,
00:15:08
because that's exactly what I want to do.
00:15:09
This is contemporary and then the novel I'm writing with my
00:15:13
husband is full on romanticity because he's a romance writer
00:15:16
and I'm, you know, he's no, he's fiction, you know, he's total
00:15:21
fantasy fiction and I am romance.
00:15:23
And so like, let's write a romanticity together.
00:15:25
So I'd love that you have like contemporary takes place on
00:15:28
Earth and, you know, romanticity your catalog because that's
00:15:32
exactly what I want to do. I'm like, we're going to be so
00:15:34
In Sync because people have warned me like only write one
00:15:37
specific niche and I don't want to do that.
00:15:40
I love writing stories about teenagers and young adults on
00:15:44
our planet because I feel like I missed out on that time.
00:15:46
But I'm also like, you know, fantasy geek.
00:15:50
My husband and I like bonded over Lord of the Rings.
00:15:53
Like that's why we got married because he's getting of sorts.
00:15:57
I. Love that I I have to tell you,
00:16:00
last year I last August, I met Orlando Bloom and I about melted
00:16:07
and I was so sad. He wasn't dressed as Legolas, of
00:16:09
course, but I was I was just about to melt.
00:16:12
And then this year, apparently the rest of the cast is going to
00:16:16
be there at this comic com we have.
00:16:18
So it's going to be like Gimli and all the hobbits and stuff.
00:16:21
So I am like in my element. I love that you are a Lord of
00:16:24
the Rings fan. That's we've got the poster up
00:16:27
there, not in the movie, but just like you're a poster.
00:16:31
And then Aragon sword. Yeah, Aragon sword right here.
00:16:39
So this is mounted on the wall. We need to mount.
00:16:42
We need to mount Gandalf sword to go with it because my husband
00:16:45
is my husband has a lot of like Gandalf.
00:16:48
He's got a lot of Aragon. He's also got, you know, he's
00:16:51
he's, you know, very much my Sam.
00:16:53
You know, he's like my rock that's always there.
00:16:55
So yeah, I see him at all. That's.
00:16:58
Fantastic. I hit the jackpot.
00:17:00
You sound like you did. That is awesome.
00:17:03
So I where were we? I don't even know.
00:17:06
We talked about Lord of the Rings and then I'm gone, I tell
00:17:08
you. We're talking about like.
00:17:10
Fantasy. Fantasy and contemporary.
00:17:12
Why we write both? Yes, I, for me, it's, it's, I
00:17:16
want to think that there's a world with all of that stuff in
00:17:20
it. You know what I mean?
00:17:21
Maybe not the the demons that I write about, but you know, all
00:17:23
the magic and everything. I know.
00:17:26
That's why I envision it like that.
00:17:28
I envision New York City is one of my favorite city, so I put
00:17:30
that in there. But I live in the Chicago area,
00:17:33
so there's a lot of that there. But yeah, I I try and tie it
00:17:37
together. So I love romanticity.
00:17:38
I think it's one of the best out there.
00:17:40
Yeah, no, I am. People say that like after
00:17:43
you're married for a couple years, you start to get that
00:17:45
itch where like, you want the hunt back.
00:17:47
You want that thrill of like finding someone new to get a
00:17:50
crush on. And I remember when, like, I, I
00:17:53
was getting married to my husband and we were watching
00:17:55
that Matthew Perry, Zac Efron movie, I think 17 again, when he
00:17:59
goes back in time and I watched it with him and I started
00:18:01
freaking out. I'm like, I'm never going to
00:18:02
have a first kiss. Like the hunt is over.
00:18:05
We were engaged. I'm like, I'm getting nagged.
00:18:06
That's it. There will never be another
00:18:08
moment where you have like that first time kissed with someone.
00:18:11
And I was like, that freaked the hell out of me.
00:18:13
And I was like, Oh my God. But like being a writer and like
00:18:16
writing about characters that age and getting to like
00:18:18
experience the first time romance on the page.
00:18:24
Yeah, I. Think everyone should do it.
00:18:25
I think that would save a lot of marriages and then.
00:18:28
You would use it vicariously and then you get rid of marriage
00:18:31
when you're done. Yeah, you can have that like
00:18:34
first time butterflies in the stomach all over again without
00:18:37
having to have an IRL. There you go, everyone take
00:18:40
notice. This is This is the new thing.
00:18:43
This is how. Old your marriage.
00:18:44
So when it comes to writing books, what's the hardest part
00:18:48
for you? Having a day job, I so resent, I
00:18:53
so resent the fact that like I can't just write and do YouTube
00:18:57
full time. You know what I mean?
00:18:59
That like that I have to like still have a day jobs.
00:19:04
Just my, my main goal is to do it full time.
00:19:06
I mean, have a really, my husband is really good at like,
00:19:09
OK, I'm going to write for 30 minutes and then I'm going to go
00:19:12
to work. Like he's really good at like
00:19:14
being responsible. Like I'm going to do this for
00:19:16
I'm like what I write. I'm like, I'm like, clear my
00:19:18
schedule. I'm doing this today.
00:19:20
I get so obsessively wrapped up in the story that I'm creating
00:19:23
as I'm writing that like I hate the fact that I have to clean
00:19:27
the house and go shopping and obsessively need, but I have to
00:19:30
clean the house and go shopping and like workout, do all this
00:19:32
other stuff like, and then and then have the day job.
00:19:34
It's like just the time management is like the hardest
00:19:38
part for me, you know, it's like making it full time is my dream
00:19:41
and I'm not going to stop until that is it.
00:19:43
That is my only job writing in YouTube.
00:19:45
So that's, that's it, you know. Yeah, that's, I agree.
00:19:49
It is hard because, yeah, you get very obsessed with it.
00:19:53
And I will not come up for air it seems like for hours, you
00:19:57
know? And then you're like, Oh my God,
00:19:59
I have a life and I have to actually do things.
00:20:01
I have kids. I have to be.
00:20:02
Come on. I know, right?
00:20:05
So like, I'm writing, I don't have kids, but I have furry
00:20:07
kids. And like, my cat will be like,
00:20:09
standing on the coffee table in my face meowing at me.
00:20:13
Yes. Oh yeah.
00:20:14
One of my cats, he's a He's a tripod.
00:20:17
He is insistent on his meals at a certain certain time and if
00:20:20
I'm not there, darn it, you know, all hell breaks loose.
00:20:24
So I have written him into my story and the Dud Witch, which
00:20:28
is my most recent one. And it's just like opinionated
00:20:32
cat. And it is after my tripod
00:20:34
because he is so opinionated and he kept making so many cameos
00:20:38
while I was writing that I was like, that's it, you're in the
00:20:40
store. I loved the scene in this when
00:20:43
she's talking to her cat and she knows what he's saying by his
00:20:47
mannerisms and his meows and his gestures.
00:20:49
She's having a whole conversation.
00:20:50
That was like one of my favorite scenes in your book so far.
00:20:53
The part of the beginning was she's communicating with the cat
00:20:55
and making books. Yeah.
00:20:57
Oh, my God. Yeah.
00:20:58
It's just like, I know what they're saying.
00:21:00
You know what I mean? I feel like I have these
00:21:02
conversations with them and like anybody who was looking, looking
00:21:05
in the window and they're like, OK, this woman needs to go to
00:21:07
the loony bin. But.
00:21:10
Yes, I was hoping other cat owners would get that because,
00:21:13
you know, we just know what they're saying.
00:21:15
Exactly, exactly. You know, Oh my God.
00:21:20
Yeah. So for as far as publishing
00:21:22
goes, you said that you had a little bit of a rocky start
00:21:25
there. We won't name names, but we
00:21:28
won't. Name names.
00:21:29
But I will say that like the best thing that came out of it
00:21:32
was my friendship with my friend Lauren.
00:21:35
You know, we both kind of went through this and we were both,
00:21:37
it was so helpful to have someone, you know, because it
00:21:41
was so toxic. We were both getting physically,
00:21:43
I'll, I mean, this publisher was so toxic.
00:21:45
We were getting headaches, insomnia, you know, she was
00:21:49
having acid reflux. I was getting like stomach
00:21:51
aches. It was just like this was
00:21:53
unbearable. So this, this is what happened
00:21:55
when I signed with this publisher, I was so happy that
00:21:59
someone wanted my manuscript because I hadn't had experience
00:22:02
with a literary agent that they were they everything on their
00:22:07
manuscript wish list was my book.
00:22:08
So I sent this and then they rejected it because she said the
00:22:13
sister's relationship does not reflect her sister's
00:22:16
relationship in real life. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I wrote
00:22:18
about my life, not yours. You know what I mean?
00:22:21
So that's what she rejected it even though it was like, I wish
00:22:23
that would just be honest and like, we're not going to take
00:22:25
you because you're new, you know, like just be honest.
00:22:28
And so so after that, I was so deflated.
00:22:33
And then so I started submitting it to small independent
00:22:36
publishers that took on agented manuscripts submissions.
00:22:41
And I got 1 and I was on cloud 9.
00:22:43
And I was so happy and I was so excited.
00:22:45
And I felt like this was my big break when I was shooting
00:22:48
YouTube videos about like how I was getting published and this
00:22:50
is going to be amazing. They had an author symposium in
00:22:54
San Diego and I flew out there to meet with all the other
00:22:58
authors and my publisher for two days and it was great and I felt
00:23:02
really successful, like I'm here, I made it.
00:23:04
But then like somebody asked me, well, how come she isn't paying
00:23:06
for it? How come the publisher isn't
00:23:08
paying for it? How come all you authors are
00:23:09
being, you're paying for your own flight, your hotel, your
00:23:11
food. You know, we dropped like $2000
00:23:13
on this trip because I brought my husband because he has family
00:23:16
right there. And so he came along to, you
00:23:18
know, meet up with family members as well if we have to
00:23:22
go. And so while we were there, huge
00:23:26
red flags started popping up. She, the publisher, was horrible
00:23:31
to the hotel staff, horribly rude.
00:23:33
She brought people on to do presentations and told them that
00:23:36
she like reviewed their presentations and then cut them
00:23:38
off mid sentence in the middle of the presentations and said
00:23:41
you can't say that all these like red flags were popping out.
00:23:45
And then after this meeting, this purse, this character, this
00:23:48
publishers personality totally changed.
00:23:51
She said she took me to the airport.
00:23:52
She abandoned me at the hotel, didn't take me to the airport.
00:23:55
We had to take an Uber. And then once we got home, then
00:23:59
I was talking to Lauren and all the other girls that I met at
00:24:01
the symposium. We were all comparing notes.
00:24:03
She's not answering her emails. She's not answering her phone
00:24:05
calls for months. We didn't know what our
00:24:08
publishing date was going to be and she was expecting us to
00:24:10
publish these books. We would just do her coming
00:24:13
soon. She would not give us a release
00:24:15
date. She would not give us the date
00:24:17
that it would go for pre-order or release.
00:24:19
So we couldn't do book trailers, We couldn't do like cover
00:24:21
reveals, we couldn't do ARC readers.
00:24:23
We couldn't do like, any of the standard practices.
00:24:26
And she was telling us not to get any ARC readers because she
00:24:30
didn't want anyone to have these books for free.
00:24:32
She was telling us, like, not to do standard publishing
00:24:35
practices. And then we pretty much figured
00:24:37
out that we think it's a front business for illegal activity
00:24:39
because she seems to want these books to fail.
00:24:41
She seems to want to have just enough authors on the website to
00:24:45
make it look like a legitimate business and just enough new
00:24:48
authors for her taxes. But then she actively makes sure
00:24:52
these books cannot succeed because she doesn't want as much
00:24:55
like, attention gone to the front business.
00:24:58
So, yeah, we can't prove this, but this is what, you know, this
00:25:00
is what we believe. So my advice to authors.
00:25:04
And I had a lawyer look over this contract.
00:25:06
I did everything right before I signed this contract.
00:25:09
I went to the Better Business Bureau and saw that she did not
00:25:13
have any like, you know, negative strikes against her
00:25:15
company. I had a lawyer look over the
00:25:16
contract, and I was like, OK, this is a legitimate business
00:25:19
and I signed it. If you get a publishing contract
00:25:23
deal, absolutely do what I did. But that's not enough.
00:25:26
OK, go to the Better Business Bureau.
00:25:28
Step one. OK, If it looks good, good.
00:25:30
Move on to Step 2. You must have a lawyer who
00:25:33
specializes in publishing contract law look at it.
00:25:40
And I now do because I found the lawyer afterwards to try to get
00:25:43
out of this. And he looked at this and he
00:25:45
looked at the contract that I signed and Lauren's side, and he
00:25:47
said, Oh, my God, I would never, never encourage a writer to sign
00:25:52
this ever. And so make sure if you're
00:25:56
signing a contract with a publisher that you have someone
00:25:58
who specializes in contract publishing, contract law.
00:26:02
Look at it. I can't remember the guy's name,
00:26:04
but if you want me to give you lawyer information that you can
00:26:06
contact, then I use so people have a place to like, you know,
00:26:09
go to. I'll be happy to do that.
00:26:11
I can't remember his name off hand.
00:26:12
And yeah, absolutely do that because, you know, it was so
00:26:16
sneaky that just the regular lawyer who does like inheritance
00:26:20
contracts couldn't find all of the red flags.
00:26:23
And you know, this experience, I mean, it was a miracle.
00:26:26
I got the rights to the books back.
00:26:28
We all got our rights to the books back at the same time.
00:26:31
I don't know what happened, but we all did.
00:26:33
And so then we republished. But I would never sign with
00:26:36
another small independent press. And I would rather self publish.
00:26:41
I don't want anyone telling me, like, what my release date is
00:26:43
going to be, what it's not going to be that I can't do a sale on
00:26:47
what my cover has to look like. You know, some publishers go,
00:26:50
you have to wait a year to publish your book because we
00:26:51
have another book that's similar that we've already signed.
00:26:54
And there's so much red tape to get through when you're with a
00:26:58
publisher. I'm like, I and then I thought,
00:27:01
God, you know, I'm someone who's like wanted to be self-employed
00:27:04
my whole life. I have done things my whole life
00:27:06
to not work for like a corporation.
00:27:09
You know, I like tutored kids. I've done like Uber deliveries
00:27:13
and I was an independent online teacher and tutor for years,
00:27:15
right? Just, it was just me and the
00:27:17
child in the classroom or me and the child, you know, at school
00:27:20
working independently, not having a boss breathing down my
00:27:23
neck. I'm like, I don't really, I want
00:27:25
it to be self-employed my whole life.
00:27:26
Why am I doing this to myself? I'm just going to self publish.
00:27:29
So that is my advice. It's like if you can get an
00:27:32
agent, wonderful. If you can get traditionally
00:27:34
published by a legitimate publishing company, wonderful.
00:27:37
But do not sign anything until you have a lawyer that
00:27:42
specializes in publishing contracts.
00:27:43
Go over it because it was a nightmare.
00:27:47
I mean, it is. Yeah, it is.
00:27:50
There's a lot of scams out there as far as publishing goes.
00:27:53
And I actually got so frustrated I created my own publishing
00:27:56
company. That's what I did.
00:27:58
I saw. Yeah, and the only other author
00:28:01
I have is my friend because I'm like, you know, we'll go into it
00:28:04
together, but I don't, you know, I have some queries, you know,
00:28:08
just in case. But I, I don't take other people
00:28:10
because I don't, I, I'm not going to do that.
00:28:14
You know, I'm just not doing all of that.
00:28:15
It's just too much. I want people to either self
00:28:17
publish or like you said said, wait for the big ones, but the
00:28:20
big ones are hard to get so you got to be so so careful you do.
00:28:26
There's so many and never pay for anything.
00:28:29
Ever I know, including a hotel room and a flight.
00:28:33
And. I think, you know, they're
00:28:36
having an event. They need to pay for it.
00:28:38
I think she needed to prove that it was a legitimate business for
00:28:41
tax purposes, which is why she was, like, pressuring all of us
00:28:44
to come to this meeting in San Diego.
00:28:47
Yeah. So she could take pictures and
00:28:48
prove, oh, look, I have a legitimate business with real
00:28:50
authors. Absolute, absolute nightmare.
00:28:54
But I mean, you know, Lord and I became really close because we
00:28:56
feel like Legless and Gimli, like we fought a war together
00:29:02
and now we're bonded. Yes, it sounds like you did.
00:29:05
It really does. It absolutely does.
00:29:07
It's such a scary process, so I'm glad that you came out on
00:29:10
the other side of it and you have the rights to your book
00:29:12
because that's the most important thing out of all this.
00:29:15
Yeah, I do. And and not only that, this oh,
00:29:18
you're going to love this. She went through my book and I
00:29:22
went through with an editor and I agreed to the changes.
00:29:25
And then she took the book and added other changes that I
00:29:28
didn't approve and then published it without.
00:29:29
I had to read my own book to see all the changes.
00:29:32
She added 70 slang. So like, you know, the teenagers
00:29:36
today we're speaking 70 slang. And I was like, Oh my God.
00:29:40
I had artist palette spelled directly correctly and she
00:29:43
changed it to palette spell like the flat, you know, blank used
00:29:49
for construction. I was like, Oh my God, this
00:29:51
woman is so stupid. You know.
00:29:54
Wow, so. Yeah, just all these
00:29:57
unauthorized changes. She wouldn't tell authors, she
00:29:59
would just change it. One girl's she changed her
00:30:03
dedications like I dedicate this book to this person that she
00:30:07
actually went in and changed the writers dedications and edited
00:30:10
it all out in the published it. It was just definition of nurses
00:30:15
toxic narcissist. Yeah, that sounds something
00:30:18
else. Doesn't sound like nothing that
00:30:21
I mean it's a crazy industry, but it's not that.
00:30:24
Crazy. But yeah, so where can the
00:30:27
audience find you? Well, Isis Chandler is my name
00:30:33
if you that'll take you right to my website.
00:30:36
So yeah, my TikTok and my YouTube and my TikTok and my
00:30:41
Instagram and most of my my socials are just, you know, at
00:30:46
Isis Chandler author. And then my YouTube channel is
00:30:50
Sci-fi and romancey fans, because it's not just me, that's
00:30:54
me and my husband and you know, Lawrence coming on.
00:30:58
If you ever want to come on and be a guest and review a movie or
00:31:00
TV show, I know you're really into, you know, ghost hunting.
00:31:04
So if you want, if you want to do something like school spirits
00:31:08
or one of the, you know, I don't know, around Halloween time,
00:31:12
some ghostly Holly, that would be really fun.
00:31:14
I would love to have you on the channel to review something like
00:31:17
that. I'd love to.
00:31:20
Awesome. We'll be in touch.
00:31:22
You are so nice meeting you. Stories aren't just something we
00:31:25
escape into. Sometimes, they're how we
00:31:29
survive. And if there's one thing Isis
00:31:31
Chandler proves in this conversation, it's that even
00:31:34
when the path doesn't go the way you plan, when doors close, when
00:31:37
things fall apart, when the industry doesn't play fair, you
00:31:41
can still take your story. Back.
00:31:43
You can rewrite the ending if you want to check out ISIS's
00:31:46
work or follow her journey in storytelling.
00:31:49
You can find her across social media and on her YouTube
00:31:52
channel, sci-fi and romanticity fans.
00:31:55
And as always, if you enjoyed this episode, make sure you're
00:31:57
following Plot Twist Radio on your favorite platform.
00:32:00
Leave a review and share the episode with someone who needs a
00:32:02
reminder that their story isn't over yet.
00:32:06
Because sometimes the biggest plot twist isn't what happened
00:32:08
to us, it's what we choose to do next.