What’s the real story behind the songs that defined the 2000s?
In this episode of Plot Twist Radio, Erin sits down with Five for Fighting frontman John Ondrasik and his wife, former EMI executive and author Carla Ondrasik, for an intimate conversation about music, fame, creativity, family, and the emotional stories behind iconic songs like “100 Years” and “Superman (It’s Not Easy).”
John opens up about songwriting, the pressure of following a hit record, life on tour, and how songs like “100 Years” evolved with him through every stage of life. Carla shares the incredible story of discovering John before fame, helping launch his career, and later finding her own voice as the author of Stop Trying.
This episode dives into:
- The inspiration behind “100 Years”
- The meaning of “Superman (It’s Not Easy)”
- Music industry misconceptions
- Fame, family, and life behind the spotlight
- Creativity, rejection, and resilience
- Parenting during the rise of Five for Fighting
- Carla’s transition from EMI executive to author and coach
- Why success changes as we grow older
If you love 2000s music nostalgia, singer-songwriter stories, emotional songwriting, and behind-the-scenes music industry conversations, this episode is for you.
Where to find Carla:
Where to find John:
#FiveForFighting
#JohnOndrasik
#100Years
#SupermanSong
#PlotTwistRadio
#MusicPodcast
#Songwriter
#2000sMusic
#MusicNostalgia
#BehindTheMusic
#RockMusic
#SingerSongwriter
#PodcastInterview
#MusicInterview
#AcousticRock
#90sAnd2000s
#SpotifyPodcast
#YouTubePodcast
00:00:00
Some songs don't just climb the charts, they become part of
00:00:03
people's lives. Dave's guest is the voice behind
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some of the most recognizable and emotionally resonant songs
00:00:09
of the 2000s from Superman. It's not easy to 100 years music
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that has comforted, challenged and stayed with listeners long
00:00:19
after the final note fades. But behind the music is a story
00:00:22
that goes deeper than what we hear on the radio.
00:00:25
Joining me today is John, the artist behind 5 for Fighting,
00:00:29
alongside his lovely wife Carla, a former vice president at EMI
00:00:32
Music Publishing who has helped shape the careers of some of the
00:00:36
biggest names in music. And his journey from industry
00:00:38
executive to author and coach brings a powerful perspective on
00:00:42
what it really takes to succeed. This is a conversation about
00:00:45
storytelling, life behind the spotlight, and the moments that
00:00:49
shape the songs we never forget. This is Plot Toast Radio.
00:00:55
I'm Carla. Welcome to Plot Twist Radio.
00:00:58
Hi, thanks for having us. Hello.
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It's great having you and though introductions are not necessary,
00:01:05
if you could just introduce yourself for the audience.
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OK, well, I'm Carla on Jurassic John's Wife and my background.
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I was in music publishing for 25 years, and I kind of sort of
00:01:20
discovered this guy here and then married him.
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And we've been married for 28 years.
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We have two kids. And I am recently an author of a
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book that's come out called Stop Trying.
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So yeah, we're kind of enjoying life these days together.
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Wonderful. I am the aforementioned John on
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Jurassic, blessed to be a singer-songwriter.
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I perform under the band name 5 for Fighting and and we'll get
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into it, but it's been quite the partnership for the last three
00:01:55
decades with Carla and we live in California and I'm a big fan
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of the LA Kings. So there you go.
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My son would be just ecstatic. We both like LA teams.
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He likes the Kings. I like the Dodgers.
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But we're in Chicago. What is that about?
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I don't know. So Carla, you, you discovered
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John. That is quite the plot twist to
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begin with. What was it about him that, you
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know, drew you and realized this is it?
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Yeah, I love that. I love the title of your podcast
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Plot Twist, you know, because it really, I was working for a
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company and mainly the music was R&B.
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So I had, you know, like too Short, who's still touring that
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the rapper following me around the office.
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And I was working with a lot of R&B artists.
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So the plot twist is huge. I was at Motown pitching songs
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for R&B artists. And through the wall of my
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meeting, I heard a voice. And it was this voice.
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And I thought, that's not R&B, that's not rap.
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That's the most incredible voice.
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It went from the wall to my heart.
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And I asked the guy I was having a meeting with who is that?
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And it was the secretary's boyfriend.
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She was playing the cassettes all day long.
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And I'm like, well, where can I buy that?
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And he said he he doesn't even have a record deal.
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So I then went to a showcase that John was putting on, like I
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just on Melrose Ave. at a coffee bar.
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He was performing. And I thought, OK, I can get
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this this artist a deal and get him on the radio where he
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belongs. So going from Motown pitching
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R&B songs to coming out those doors with this cassette was was
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quite the blog twist. It was crazy.
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And then, of course, you know, I started working with him and
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then did sign him to a publishing deal and then got him
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the record deal and then married him.
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Boom. My version of this story as, as
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Carla said, I was, I was playing in a piano bar in Melrose.
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There was about four people there, two of which I paid to be
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there, the other two serving coffee.
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And and I would play every Wednesday night, you know, at
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this, this little piano bar. And I noticed this woman walk in
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and sit at the back of the room. And after my set, she came up
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and, you know, she had this kind of black leather jacket on
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smoking a cigarette. And she's like, hello, my name
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is Carla Berkowitz. I get people record deals and
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I'm like, well, I'd heard that before to be honest with you.
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But she was quite attractive and I said, well, we need to work
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together. And of course, for the first two
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years to Carla, I was basically a potential income stream,
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nothing more. There was no romantic
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inclinations from her side, but I always had a certain crush on
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her. And then kind of one night at a
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music industry fundraiser, Carla, as I like to put it, saw
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the light and, and that began our relationship.
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And as, as she said, we've been kind of riding the roller
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coaster, the music business for the for the last three decades.
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And it's been really fun because, you know, she
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understands the obligations of a secret songwriter and promotion
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and. And I think that's been very
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helpful. And also, you know, she's one of
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the best kind of song pluggers in the business.
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So that's good and bad because she kind of knows a lot of
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things. But she has no problem telling
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me my songs suck, you know, when they do.
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But. But yeah, it's been a lot of
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fun. And, and, you know, to still be,
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you know, at 60 years old touring and performing and
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having people sing my songs back to me is, is really a childhood
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dream come true. Oh.
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I can imagine and you're both writers, but two different kinds
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of writing. John, we'll start with you.
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What is your writing process like?
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Yeah, I mean, there's so much that goes into it.
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I think a lot of it is just doing it just the work ethic of
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sitting down and putting the time in, you know, for geez,
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since I was 15 years old, I probably, you know, wrote 2 or
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300 songs a year and I would always be in my studio
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recording, writing. So a lot of it is just doing it
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with as a songwriter. There's, there's really no rules
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beyond, you know, sometimes you start with the melody, sometimes
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you start with the lyric. A lot of times you just have to
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be listening to the world around you and, and you can hear ideas,
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you can hear songs, you can see circumstances that may inspire
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you to write a song. So sometimes it just starts with
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the concept or something you're, you see your observations.
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But again, a lot of it is kind of drudgery.
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You know, it's like going back to the drawing board and you're
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listening to work tapes and, you know, recording 30 hours of
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ideas and listening to it to try to find that one hook that's
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special. Again, I've written thousands of
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songs in my career and for the most part, people know two of
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them. But but again, I think so much
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of it is is also will, you know, I think a lot of it has to do
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with things way beyond talent. I think talent is maybe 10% of
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my success. You know will to keep going.
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You know, the, the, in the arts, there's a lot of rejection,
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there's a lot of disappointment. So just having the will to trust
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in yourself and keep going, building relationships with
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people. I wouldn't be talking to you if
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I didn't have a certain relationship with the radio
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programmer who stuck with me when nobody else did, you know?
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So those things, I think for any endeavor, any career are, are
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really critical. And for me, luckily in great
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reason, because of Carla and a few other people, the stars
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aligned. Absolutely.
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They sure did. Carla, you're an author.
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Congratulations on the book. I'm also a writer.
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You know, I've not a great one, but I am once.
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But what is your writing process like?
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It's so interesting. I never thought I would be an
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author. Like it wasn't on my major goal
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list. And for me, I was just obsessed
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with the word try, like for the last 25 plus years, right?
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And I would take notes, I would write little things.
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I had thousands of papers and notebooks.
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And I would do study groups with women on you know, why, why are
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you succeeding? Why are you failing?
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And I love success stories, memoirs, you know, the rags to
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riches. And so I think just the when the
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moment aligned for me to be able to put this message out into the
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world at this stage of my life, I was very lucky.
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I, I had people around me that were able to introduce me to an
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editor and an agent. And so I got the agent and then
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started writing the book and I had a deadline from day one.
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So that really helped me. My process of writing was OK,
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you have an opportunity to put this book out.
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We need it delivered by November.
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And I just called all my friends and I said, please don't invite
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me to dinners and lunches and events because I'm just putting
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my head down and getting to work.
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And I would work from, you know, I think it would start for me
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like 8:00 at night and I'd work till 4:00 in the morning, you
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know, till I could barely keep my eyes open.
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And I had so much fun doing it. So it was researching, writing,
00:09:37
having a nice ability to, to focus and have my project for
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that week of what I had to accomplish.
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And having the deadline was the best.
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So I just really took 25 years of notes and my ideas and my
00:09:54
thoughts and my passion and finally said, OK, now I'm going
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to do it. And I put it all together in a
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book and turned it in on time. That's awesome.
00:10:04
You know, I work better when I'm on a deadline too.
00:10:06
If I know a book is, you know, it's scheduled to be released,
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say June 20th, I am one of those that will run up right up to the
00:10:14
clock. I don't know why.
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That's just how I, I don't know. I guess that's procrastinator in
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me, but I find that, you know, I can shut myself away more so and
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push and it's a better product. So I like that you, you know,
00:10:28
you had the deadline, so you were focused because that's kind
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of how I am too. Yeah, I'm excited to read your
00:10:33
books. Oh, thank you.
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They're they're a wild ride. No, just put it that way.
00:10:39
So let's get back to the music now.
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What's 1 misconception people have about making it in music?
00:10:46
Either one of you or both can answer this one well.
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I'll start a misconception about making it is, number one, that
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it's talent. Oh, I'm so talented that I'm
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going to be a big star. It's so much more.
00:11:03
You know, as far as back to the first question we just talked
00:11:06
about was the writing of the book was the easy part.
00:11:09
That was the easiest part, but it's promoting it and marketing
00:11:13
it and getting it out there. So a lot of kids these days or
00:11:18
you know, striving musicians talent is not enough.
00:11:22
That's the biggest misconception.
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So you have to now utilize Instagram and all of the
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platforms that you can use and start performing and do the
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little things that seem demeaning that you don't want to
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do. You never know who's going to be
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in that room at that moment that's watching you.
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It could be the gig you don't want to go to.
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That's the one that changes your life.
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So hard work and self promotion and marketing.
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And if you can't do it for yourself, find somebody that
00:11:54
believes in you, that can do that for you.
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It could be your best friend. It doesn't have to be a
00:11:59
professional, but for me I would say that's the biggest
00:12:02
misconception. Yeah, for me, I, I think, you
00:12:06
know, in the culture there's a certain obsession with
00:12:09
celebrity. And boy, if you can just be a
00:12:11
rock star or celebrity or have 10 million followers, you know,
00:12:15
your life is going to be, you know, roses and champagne.
00:12:18
And and, you know, it's so much of what we do is, is not, you
00:12:22
know, romantic and exciting. It's airports, it's hotels, it's
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10 hour bus rides. It's, it's kind of a gruelling
00:12:30
schedule to have that magical two hours on stage.
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And you know, sometimes success can bring its own challenges,
00:12:37
right? When you have success, there's a
00:12:41
lot of pitfalls and, and to continue to have humility and
00:12:45
gratitude for what you do, that can be challenging when
00:12:48
everybody's telling you that you're the greatest thing that's
00:12:50
ever existed. So I think the misconception of
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celebrity and, and that's why you see so many kind of
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celebrity struggle. Fortunately for me, you know, I
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had a great parents and I had a great family and, and I can
00:13:05
Carla was kind of right there at the beginning of my success.
00:13:08
So I had a lot of people around me that would kind of keep me
00:13:11
grounded and and. Oh, I still make them take the
00:13:14
garbage out. Oh, yeah.
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You know, it's yeah, we we keep. It's very grounded.
00:13:20
Yeah, I'm there. I'm just her Uber driver, but
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but yeah, so I think, you know, kind of having having people
00:13:28
around you that, you know, kind of remind you of what matters
00:13:31
and and so you can walk that kind of celebrity, you know, Rd.
00:13:34
a little, little easier. I think that's one thing that I
00:13:37
think there's a misconception out there in the culture.
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And and again for me, I've been very fortunate to to have a
00:13:44
great support staff around me my whole life.
00:13:47
Absolutely both excellent answers.
00:13:50
So let's talk about 100 years because ever since I found out I
00:13:55
was going to be interviewing you guys, that song has been in my
00:13:58
head. Like I've been singing it on
00:14:00
repeat. It's almost philosophical.
00:14:03
Did that perspective come from like a personal experience or
00:14:07
just more of observation? Well, you know, I was sitting on
00:14:12
the couch one day and this was, you know, after a Superman had
00:14:14
come out and I'd had my first hit.
00:14:16
And no, I tend to be one of those people that always kind of
00:14:19
lament the past, how I should have done this, I should have
00:14:22
done that, or I'm future tripping.
00:14:23
What am I going to do? How am I going to?
00:14:25
And I'm not very good at living in the moment.
00:14:28
And of course, we've all heard that, Cliche.
00:14:30
And I was sitting there and I had, you know, a 2 year old on
00:14:33
one knee, a three-year old on the other, A great family lived
00:14:37
in the greatest nation that ever exists, exists in history.
00:14:40
And, and I had a thought of, can you least for one second just
00:14:44
sit back and appreciate what you have right now because you're
00:14:47
not very good at it. And I thought, well, maybe that
00:14:50
could be a song, but I'm like, of course that song's been
00:14:52
written, but I have this thought of, well, A wish is never
00:14:55
better, better than this when you only got 100 years to live.
00:14:58
So basically the song was a life and the verses were stages of
00:15:02
our lives kind of moving through our lives.
00:15:04
And and you know, not the moment's not always good, right?
00:15:07
Sometimes we have really tough, challenging moments in our life,
00:15:11
but that's part of it. So that was kind of the impetus
00:15:14
of that song. You know, we talked about where
00:15:16
do songs come from? It didn't come from a melody.
00:15:19
It didn't come from a lyric. It came with a thought and a
00:15:21
concept. And then I sat down at the piano
00:15:24
and I started messing around with it and, and, you know,
00:15:27
three or four months later we had the song.
00:15:30
So it's interesting how songs come that way.
00:15:32
And, and for me, it's probably my favorite song to play because
00:15:37
I'm always kind of new in it. You know, I wrote the song when
00:15:40
I was in this top of the second verse in my 30s.
00:15:43
Now I'm in the bridge, you know, and I'm wise, hopefully.
00:15:47
And then one day I'll be in the vamp.
00:15:49
So it's kind of like the nice thing about that song, yours.
00:15:51
You're always in there somewhere and you're moving through it,
00:15:53
and the song may mean something totally different to you in your
00:15:56
40s and 50s than it did to you when you're in your 20s.
00:15:59
I hear that all the time. So it's kind of a song that
00:16:02
transcends time, and I think that's one reason why it's still
00:16:06
kind of resonates in the culture.
00:16:09
Yes, absolutely. And you bring up a really good
00:16:11
point because I know a lot of parents out there, myself
00:16:15
included, there's times where you're kind of just like, oh,
00:16:17
can we get out of the stage, you know, like, speed it up.
00:16:20
But then you hear like a song like that.
00:16:22
And then, yeah, I, I think of like when my son was really
00:16:25
little and he was on top of everything and I was afraid he
00:16:28
was going to burn the house down.
00:16:29
And I was just like, oh, I can't do it anymore.
00:16:31
But, you know, sounds like that. You kind of like put the life
00:16:35
into perspective a lot more. So I think you're right.
00:16:38
That's why it's such a powerful song and it still holds today.
00:16:41
And it is much different looking back now that I'm 40 versus when
00:16:45
I was younger and the song came out 'cause like you said, you
00:16:47
see it from two different angles.
00:16:49
Yeah, our, our daughter was a tantrum child, you know, just a
00:16:52
2 year old devil kid. And, and, you know, and we look
00:16:58
back on it so fondly now. It's like, oh, we missed those
00:17:01
days. We're empty nesters, you know,
00:17:04
you know, if somebody have a grandchild, you know, it's and
00:17:06
and of course, back in the day, you're pulling your hair out
00:17:08
screaming, how am I going to get through this, you know, so.
00:17:11
Talking about yeah, he was gone. He was gone.
00:17:15
He was on tour. Not always.
00:17:18
Oh. Come on, this is the 2 early
00:17:19
2000s he'd call and I'd be like. I had I had some serious tantrum
00:17:24
experiences. You did that.
00:17:26
Still traumatized me to this thing.
00:17:30
They do stick. With you for a while.
00:17:32
They absolutely do, Carla. So we know how it was for him.
00:17:37
How was it for you behind the scenes during these songs,
00:17:40
especially, you know, Superman and 100 Years?
00:17:44
Yeah, Superman was so exciting because that was just the very
00:17:47
beginning and it was a song that he didn't even think he would
00:17:51
perform. So I mean, I remember being in
00:17:54
the living room with the producer listening, going over
00:17:56
things of what they're going to choose to do and and the
00:17:59
producer saying, let's do this one, you know, and it was just
00:18:03
such a a brand new time and I love that.
00:18:07
And then, of course, 100 years, the Side Story is he had to
00:18:11
follow up Superman with another hit.
00:18:14
You know, you don't want to be the one hit wonder.
00:18:16
And so the record label was all over him and they were listening
00:18:19
to things and there was a lot of pressure and like that deadline
00:18:24
pressure. And he had was very afraid to
00:18:28
play me songs because if I didn't like it, he wouldn't
00:18:31
speak to me for a week before. Three days.
00:18:37
And so where he would not write it anymore.
00:18:40
So he really delayed playing me anything.
00:18:43
And so I, I remember he was in his little closet studio and he
00:18:48
said, I want you to hear a song. And I stood in the doorway and
00:18:51
he turned his back to me and he played the hundred, a hundred
00:18:53
years and tears. Just, I mean, it hit me.
00:18:56
It was so I knew like, Oh my gosh, this is amazing.
00:19:00
And he turned around and he looked at me and he thought.
00:19:04
Well, either I wrote a hit or my career was over because she was
00:19:07
crying. I don't know if they were happy
00:19:08
tears or sad tears, but yeah, so.
00:19:10
So that was really fun, you know, as a as a publisher
00:19:13
knowing like what it was going to take for him to really go to
00:19:17
the next stage and keep his career going.
00:19:19
So, so there was that. And then, of course, you know, I
00:19:23
had a career for 25 years. I worked so hard.
00:19:27
And then he took the reins and plot twist, I stopped working
00:19:32
and now he was the one working. But I got to become a mom and be
00:19:37
at home with my kids. We had them very close together.
00:19:40
So my days were filled with just playing and fun and him, you
00:19:45
know, doing what he had dreamed of doing.
00:19:48
So it was really a special, amazing time for us.
00:19:52
And you know, the moments when he'd pull up after being gone
00:19:56
for a couple of months and holding up the sign in the front
00:20:00
yard and then kids waiting for him were so great.
00:20:03
And it was very, very special, very amazing.
00:20:07
So I was really happy through through all of it.
00:20:10
Felt so lucky that I could stay home with my kids.
00:20:14
Oh absolutely. It is a treasure.
00:20:16
You know, we and going back to the little kid stage, sometimes
00:20:20
we don't take it for what it is at the time, but it sounds like
00:20:24
you absolutely did and that's wonderful.
00:20:26
It's very rewarding, isn't it? Yep, Yep.
00:20:29
Yeah. And, and luckily, like the kids
00:20:31
grew and his career grew and like everything just kind of,
00:20:35
you know, naturally went up and, and yeah, I wish if I could go
00:20:39
back in time, it would be to those times.
00:20:42
So Carla will stay with you. How has your definition of A of
00:20:47
success changed from your days at EMI till now?
00:20:52
Oh my gosh. So you know, when you're younger
00:20:55
and you're in your career, success is #1 keeping your job
00:21:00
that that is the first success that you want is just to get
00:21:03
your contract renewed, you know, for the next couple of years,
00:21:07
keep that salary coming. You know, I always wanted to
00:21:10
stand out in at whatever company I was at.
00:21:13
So, you know, I was very lucky and I worked really hard and I
00:21:17
was vice president of creative writer development for EMI.
00:21:20
So I did that. So the success in that arena was
00:21:25
the keeping your job, getting promoted, getting songs on the
00:21:29
radio. They were very, you know,
00:21:33
tangible things and writing the book.
00:21:38
Success for me is intangible. I don't need and I don't desire
00:21:44
the financial reward or the publicity, you know, being a
00:21:51
public person and being a celebrity, I don't desire that.
00:21:54
For me, it was the intangible rewards and success of I did
00:22:00
something I said I was going to do.
00:22:02
I did it really well. I'm helping people.
00:22:06
I'm actually changing lives with this book.
00:22:10
And that's my definition of success.
00:22:13
And if nothing else happened, if the book didn't even sell one
00:22:17
copy, I would still say I was successful because I followed my
00:22:22
heart. I put the work in, I did what I
00:22:25
wanted to do, and I released something that was meaningful to
00:22:29
the world. So 100%, my definition of
00:22:32
success is very different. And I'm really.
00:22:35
And to feel proud of myself is is my definition of success.
00:22:39
For sure, Yeah. Because we can be our own worst
00:22:43
critics. So putting that out there and
00:22:47
being so proud of it, you can't replace that feeling.
00:22:50
You just can't. No.
00:22:52
And also getting back to the kids, which seem to be, you
00:22:54
know, prevailing through this conversation.
00:22:56
You know why having my kids watch me say I want to do
00:23:00
something and then doing it and all the struggles I had doing
00:23:03
it, you know, I mean, for them to watch their mom do something
00:23:08
is amazing. So there's success there too.
00:23:12
Absolutely, absolutely. John, Looking back on your
00:23:16
career, what could you tell Free Superman John?
00:23:22
Or what would you tell Free Superman John, I should say.
00:23:26
Chill out. Yeah.
00:23:30
I mean, of course, you always learn lessons.
00:23:34
And, you know, look, when I wrote Superman, it's not easy to
00:23:39
be me. You know, I was hitting the wall
00:23:42
of the music business. I was struggling.
00:23:44
I was disappointed, I was frustrated.
00:23:46
But I've learned in the last 30 years, it's pretty easy to be
00:23:48
me. It's pretty easy to be most of
00:23:51
us. And that really is not because
00:23:52
I've had success, but I've met people with real challenges,
00:23:56
right? So I, I would tell them, you
00:23:59
know, just do your best. You can't control everything in
00:24:03
the world, but think about the big things, you know, think
00:24:07
about being a good son, being a good husband, being a good
00:24:10
father. Do things that inspire you.
00:24:15
And you know, talking about success, you know, a good mentor
00:24:19
of both of ours, Aguinieto wrote a book called Success to to
00:24:23
Significance. And so I'd like to think, you
00:24:27
know, in the last 10-15 years, I've focused more on, on
00:24:31
compassionate charitable adventures for me.
00:24:34
And, and, you know, the, the, the days of, you know, hits and
00:24:39
record sales and, and selling tickets and all that stuff that
00:24:43
used to kind of dominate my thoughts have morphed into
00:24:45
something maybe a little broader.
00:24:46
And so, yeah, so, you know, I would say, you know, just do
00:24:49
your best, you know, and, and you can't control everything
00:24:52
and, and be grateful for what you do have.
00:24:56
That's one thing I've really learned about, you know, we, we
00:25:00
tend to be very competitive and tend to be kind of, you know,
00:25:04
especially in our, our, our line of business, pretty
00:25:06
narcissistic. You kind of have to be to a
00:25:07
certain degree. But at the end of the day, be
00:25:10
grateful for what you do have. Because I think we, we obsess so
00:25:14
much on what's wrong with the world and all of, you know, bad
00:25:16
things and things that make us, you know, frustrated, but look
00:25:20
at all the good things. And I still struggle with that,
00:25:22
to be honest with you. I still kind of obsess on on
00:25:25
things I want to change and things that make me angry.
00:25:27
But, you know, to be grateful for what you do have.
00:25:30
I think COVID taught that to a lot of us, that lesson of, of
00:25:33
look, you know, simple things, going out to dinner with your
00:25:36
parents or, you know, you know, driving your kid to school.
00:25:39
You know, the mundane things in life are, are really the big
00:25:42
things and to appreciate those. So that's what I would tell
00:25:45
them. I don't know if you'd listen to
00:25:46
me, but that's what I tell. Them, our younger selves never
00:25:51
listen. I forgot that, trust me.
00:25:54
So, Marla, where can the audience find you, your book and
00:25:58
your coaching? So yeah, the book is available
00:26:02
everywhere that books are sold. Amazon, you can buy it on Amazon
00:26:08
and my website isstop-trying.com and there's a ton of information
00:26:14
on there. There's some free downloads and
00:26:16
stuff if you sign up and Instagram, that's my favorite
00:26:22
platform. I do these really great posts a
00:26:24
few times a week that just really bring home the message
00:26:28
of, wait, what do you mean stop trying?
00:26:30
I thought trying is a good thing.
00:26:32
I thought I'm supposed to try. Well, you're going to have a big
00:26:35
plot twist in your life because trying is not what you think it
00:26:39
is. And so follow me on Instagram,
00:26:42
go to the website, buy this book for yourself, for people that
00:26:46
you love because it is life changing.
00:26:48
Thank you for asking. Absolutely.
00:26:51
And I'll make sure all those links are on the show notes.
00:26:54
John, what's up next for you? Yeah, well, we our summer tours
00:26:58
just around the corner. We're going out with a great
00:27:01
artist named Edwin McCain who had some hit songs kind of the
00:27:03
same time I did. So it'll be a little kind of
00:27:07
trip to the to the past and and blast to the future.
00:27:10
So we'll be out all June in the Midwest, in the South, me and
00:27:15
Edwin. And then this fall we always do
00:27:18
a string quartet tour, me and a string quartet.
00:27:20
So we'll be in the Northeast 5 for fighting with string quartet
00:27:23
all over the Northeast in September and October, even up
00:27:27
into Canada. And the great thing about this
00:27:29
little run is my daughter Olivia is opening for us with her folk
00:27:34
duo, Lace and Lee. So we travel together, which is
00:27:37
for a daddy, you know, very, very wonderful.
00:27:42
And so. Yeah.
00:27:43
So a lot of music, you know, a lot of a lot of fun.
00:27:47
And all the dates are at 5 for fighting.com.
00:27:49
And, you know, we we always leave a few tickets for our
00:27:53
soldiers and our military families.
00:27:55
So folks can always reach out to me if they want to be our guest.
00:27:58
But yeah, so it'll be another another year of frolicking with
00:28:01
the kids in the bus and having a lot of fun.
00:28:05
Well, very, very cool and I hope you guys have a wonderful tour.
00:28:08
I loved having you and thank you so much for joining me.
00:28:11
I know that the audience is going to love you.
00:28:13
Thanks for having us. Always good for a plot twist.
00:28:18
Conversation like this reminds us that success isn't just about
00:28:21
talent. It's about belief, timing, risk,
00:28:24
and the people who see something in you before the world does.
00:28:28
My thanks to John and Carla for sharing not just their journey,
00:28:32
but the perspective behind it. Until next time, this is plot
00:28:35
twist radio.