What happens when a deathcore frontman trades the stage for the world of AI startups and executive leadership?
In this episode of Plot Twist Radio, I sit down with Matt Jones — former frontman of Martyr Defiled and newly appointed Chief Commercial Officer at frontier AI startup Corpora — to talk about identity, reinvention, authenticity, and the surprising skills that transfer from music to business.
Matt opens up about life touring in metal bands, navigating sudden popularity, learning humility, and eventually realizing it was time to grow into a new chapter. We also dive into leadership, startup culture, AI, and why joy may be the most underrated career strategy of all.
This conversation is honest, funny, thoughtful, and packed with insight for anyone who has ever wondered if it’s too late to change directions.
Topics include:
- Life as the frontman of Martyr Defiled
- Touring, music culture, and growing up
- The transition from music to tech
- Leadership and charisma
- AI startups and innovation
- Authenticity in professional spaces
- Finding purpose and joy in your career
Matt’s story proves that sometimes the biggest plot twists lead exactly where you’re supposed to go.
Where to find Matt:
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Welcome to Plot Twist Radio, the show where creativity,
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storytelling, and the unpredictable path of the
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creative life all collide. I'm your host, Aaron Egnetz.
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Hello Matt, welcome to Plot Twist.
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Radio. Thank you for speaking.
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Great to have you. So before we get going, you want
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to introduce yourself to our audience.
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Hi, yes, I'm I'm Matt. I'm the needy minted chief
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commercial officer at corpora. My join there in the last week
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or so when by the time this comes out, I've been spent five
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years at Microsoft. And before that I I spent a bit
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of time in sat technical consultancy.
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And before that I was, I was the front man of the metal bands.
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Quite the plot twist there. So like you said, you just went
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from running a metal band to stepping into a leadership role
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that's not exactly a traditional career path.
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When did everything change for you?
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So the the first thing about being in a metal band,
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especially at the time that we were doing it, my little brother
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actually is in a in a metal band himself now.
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And we were talking about the money that he's making.
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And I was like, yeah, we weren't, we weren't making that
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50 bits ago. So which is, yeah, which is a
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different thing. But at the time, you know, you
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kind of had to swallow like the fact that you were just going
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to, you know, bum around. I was living in my my
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girlfriend's parents spare bedroom with her and what have
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you. And we every year we go to
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Brighton around the in the UK, we have the, the orcas bank
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holidays, like a famous time to kind of take a weekend trip or
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whatever. And we're walking along Brian's
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pier, Brian Pier and my, my now wife turned to me and she said,
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when you gonna grow up and when we're gonna move out my parents
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spare bedroom. And I was like, yeah, it does
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feel like maybe it's about time. I was maybe 2627.
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I've been doing it for nearly ten years by this point.
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And we, the bands were just about to release our what ended
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up being our final album, which we about 2017.
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It did well, we toured it, you know, it did a bunch of copies.
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It's actually my favorite of the records we did.
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It's not the most successful one, but it's the one that I
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like the most. And then we kind of we we we got
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round after the kind of the initial touring.
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We all looked at each other and like, yeah, no, we don't.
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We I'm going to in as to do the record the justice that it
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deserves and going, you know, hit the road again for years on
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end like we had the previous records.
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So we called it a day. And actually the kind of proof
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is in the pudding in the after the band split up within a year,
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I was married, our basis was married, our drummer was
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married. All three of us bought a house
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and all four of us after a couple of years or had kids.
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So there was this like pen talk, need to grow up I think within
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the group and it was a good time because we had a fantastic run
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as a band. We got to see the world.
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I got to Australia, I taught America, I taught Europe on Teen
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Times. I was really blessed to have
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that experience and kind of take it forward and clearly use it to
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kind of shape an interesting career kind of moving beyond
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this stage. Yeah.
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Absolutely. That sounds really, it sounds
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really fun, you know, but I can understand where the twist goes.
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I mean, as an author, you know, I don't make a lot of money.
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It's fun, but I have to have another job.
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And so it's hard to balance that sometimes.
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So I understand why you made the pivot, but take me back to the
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time that you were in the band. What did that chapter of your
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life teach you that people maybe wouldn't expect?
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So I think the kind of the period immediately before we
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formed the bands, I was, I was, I was a fairly, I think,
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socially awkward person. You know, I have a lot of
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friends at school. I was a little bit, I was a
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little bit of a weird kid. I like to play Counter Strike
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on, you know, in the evenings and, you know, I built my own
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computers and stuff and I wasn't, I wasn't like a cool kid
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in school for damn sure. And then at 17, I, I went and
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worked at a music venue. I actually loved some like of
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these early kind of the, the neat genre I was in was called
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Death Corp. And in like 2000 and six, 2007,
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there wasn't really anyone putting those shows on.
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And I really wanted to see some of the bands.
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So it's like, I'll just do it. So I, I end up putting some
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shows on the venue kind of that I used kind of like me and then
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brought me in. I ended up living above that
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venue in a little flat and I kind of worked for like 30 lbs a
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week plus free rent and as much beer from the bar as I wanted to
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drink at 16 years old and 17 years old.
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And all my the door stuff we used at the bar with the same
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door stuff at all the clubs in Nottingham in the city where we,
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where I grew up. So I immediately I had a flat in
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town, I had free beer, I could get into any club that I wanted.
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And I just joined like or formed like a cool band.
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So I went from having like no friends to having all the
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friends. And it was really, it was like
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looking back, you feel this way at the time, it was a really
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difficult transition to go from nobody really giving a damn to
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everyone wanted to be a friend there.
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I got, I got like a big ego. I really, I became quite
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arrogant. I became, I became a real
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difficult person to like, I think.
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And then I had to reconcile that.
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So as I kind of matured and got towards my early 20s and the
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band kind of continued to grow, I had to learn to kind of be
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humble, had to learn, and I had to relearn how to deal with
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people, right? Because I just, I'd never had
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to. And then I'd had this, you know,
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2 polarized experiences. And actually through those very
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polarized experiences of the world, I learned how to kind of
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empathize, how to be humble, how to be, you know, how to be open
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and how to listen to people and how to understand people.
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And that actually became something that I was so bad at,
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you know, up until I was about 21.
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It became the thing that I was really good at from 21 onwards
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because I had to look, I didn't have the choice.
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I had to learn how to do that. And that's the thing that I
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think throughout my career, you know, leaving music and joining,
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going into tech and kind of moving forward, that's the thing
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that has kind of stood out for me.
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I think I'm able to kind of understand the room, understand
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someone's wants and desires and needs and the things that
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they're trying to achieve. And that's been the way that
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I've kind of formed, you know, the relationships that I have,
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the people. And then those relationships are
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the things I've been able to then leverage to, to either do a
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deal or, you know, set up a new partnership or get a new job or
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whatever. That that's kind of the thing
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that I learned the most. And it's in constant focus,
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especially when you're touring because you, you might be
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playing to five 600 people a night.
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You finish the show, go, you know, you go do the merch or you
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go hang out and people want to chat to you, want to talk to
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you. And it's constant all the time.
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You've got to be switched on and you've got to be able to make
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people in that moment feel really special, like you care.
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And I had an experience where I I met the singer of a band.
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It's a band called dance Come and dance and they're like this
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technical mafi emo type band. And the singer guy called guy
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called, what's his name, Johnny Craig.
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I'm sorry that I was thinking Johnny Owen.
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That's someone very different. Johnny Craig.
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He's well reported in the industry to be a massive idiot,
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like a bit total douche. And we played a shot.
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We actually ended up playing a shown together, Johnny Craig
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doing a solo thing and we were we were headlining another stage
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and it went over and reduced myself to him and he made me
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feel so small and I was like, I never want anyone to fit, even
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though like he was such a small. I love that that that dance kind
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of dance album that he's some on was one of my all time favorite
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records. I could listen to that cover to
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cover, no skips and every single word to every single song.
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It's one of those those records, you know, and I'd never I felt
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so deflated and I was like, I never want some people might
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feel, you know, some people might feel that way about my
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band that they they really love the music and I never want them
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to feel that I don't have the time for them.
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And I I really, because of that kind of experience, I'm
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massively over indexed on it to really like, how are you?
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Tell me about you tell me. I want to hear about your your
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stuff like to get me as a band guy, like, you know, what's your
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kids names? What do you do as a job?
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Like I think that that kind of trained me.
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I think for the next stage of life, when that that's actually
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a skill that's quite desirable, not just something you do
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because you feel you ought to. Yes, absolutely.
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You know, that's one of the things that make or break people
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if you have a bad reputation. I, I know I've, there's been
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certain people that I could have interviewed, but I was like, oh,
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I don't know, you know, never meet your idol type.
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Thing. But you took that as a learning
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experience and that's a great thing.
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So being a front man, it's it's kind of leadership in a way.
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Do you see parallels between commanding a Sage and leading in
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business? Certainly, certainly charisma.
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I I find there's different types of leadership, right, that not
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every leader has to be this charismatic.
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You know, although that's the leaders that I gravitate hearts.
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I naturally, you know, like, like, like attracts like, right
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I am, I find myself going towards leaders.
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They're inspiring and and kind of fill room.
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So I don't think all leaders need to be like that, but
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certainly the charisma and being able to kind of commander room
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is, is super important. Something again, something that
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I, it's a learned behaviour for me, something that I've been
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able to kind of carry that forward.
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And I always think about whether it's a meeting or a coffee or a
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zoom call or what. I always kind of think about
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these things as stages and performances.
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I, I very much frame things in my mind as if I'm, I'm doing a
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stage show, even though it might be, you know, a pitch call or,
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you know, just to check in with a, with a, with a, with a
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contact, a client. But I think the the really
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interesting thing about bands is there's there's five people.
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We had configurations of five and four.
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That's the bit that I think where leadership is really,
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really interesting because there's always in a band, in
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every single band, there's always one person who kind of is
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the leader. But then bands are attract
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people with big egos. So you tend to have this
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friction of of the people that are in the band and trying to
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hold these things together. And that's that kind of how to
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manage a group of individuals and collect, create something
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that's greater than some of its parts.
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That's the thing that I think I took the biggest thing away.
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The charisma thing is great and it's a skill for me.
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I don't think it's a must have to be a great leader, but I
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think being able to kind of orchestrate a group clearly
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leadership that's that's that's the most important thing that
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you need to have. Yes, absolutely.
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So let's move it on to your new role.
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Now you're stepping into the Chief Commercial Officer role,
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which is really cool. Congratulations.
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Thank you. What excites you most about this
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opportunity? So I started my career at a kind
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of more scale up than a startup I suppose.
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But I I worked for a couple of startups and most smaller
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organization should be say before joining Microsoft.
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And whilst Microsoft was a fantastic learning curve for me
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and I proved that I could do what I did elsewhere in a big
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corporate machine and I can kind of the skills are transferable
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and unable to do it. And I kind of climbed about as
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far at the top of the tree as you can with Microsoft with the
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kind of client I ended up looking after.
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I always wanted to go back to startups.
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I wanted to do something exciting.
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I've got a burning desire to kind of do something that's a
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bit world changing, something that's going to be, you know,
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genuine, leave a mark on the world, you know, think about
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legacy and all these sorts of things that could for the
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betterment of humanity, right? And I'd be chanting now or the
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guy that founded corpora, we've kind of dropped a message on
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LinkedIn about a year ago and just said, oh, it looks
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interesting what you're doing. I'd love to learn more.
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And we stayed into it and this, this new business corpora is so,
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so interesting in the way that they're attacking the market.
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It's not a typical sales, a typical sales thing.
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We're talking about frontier research, we're talking about
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dealing with scientists in the universities, dealing with tech
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spin out. You know, the technology they
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build that underpins this whole thing is phenomenal.
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And it's really, really exciting to go and join something
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obviously super new, still kind of start understanding the
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business and how it works and understanding how it works
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today, which might not be how it works tomorrow, because that's
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how startups are. All right, Things, you know, you
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pivot on a dime. But yeah, just getting in where
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you can have an outsize impact. I'm still interested to find out
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exactly what chief commercial officer machine in this context.
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I'm, I'm the type of guy, if they want me to go mop the
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floors, I'll get, I'll go grab the bucket.
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You know, if it needs to doing, I'll do it.
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And I think that's the joy of being in the startup is that you
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can go and try and, and be effective in so many different
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areas and wear so many different hats and be so I'm multifaceted.
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I think I'm really looking forward to that challenge of how
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can I bring some of the skills to the table, Not just, you
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know, the sales stuff that I've done, but the other bits that I
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think I'll be pretty good at too.
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That's excellent. That's an exciting opportunity.
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I always love to research startups.
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My dad, he does a whole bunch of startups and stuff, and I'm
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always intrigued by it. But I've never really understood
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business because I'm like an artsy person, so I don't really
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know much about it. But this has to do with AI,
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correct? Yeah, so they built an and AI
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platforms, the secret source is really in the database.
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They've built this, this graph database or, or hypergraph
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database. And that's super interesting.
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And how they're using then the breadth and depth of data that
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they can, they can collate within this, this data set that
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they're, they're maintaining with a, an LLM to kind of build
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some summarization and use that then to create novel and, and
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really interesting hypothesis for, for, for, you know, for
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startups of the businesses that are looking to, you've changed
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the world, right? I think there's some really
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interesting examples they've already got.
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I've stuff that's super cool. That is to my point, you know,
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quite revolutionary, quite world changing.
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I think it might be an opportunity to do three or four
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of those things. AI is such a multi faceted, you
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know, thing that a lot of people don't understand, but you know,
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it's really helpful that that the databases.
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I'm a professor, so, you know, I hate to say it, but I use it
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sometimes for my research and stuff, and I know my students
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do. I think it's the future, so it's
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great that you're getting involved in it now.
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Let's kind of. Pivot over to your plot twist a
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little bit, because we already know what that is.
00:13:38
You've like, essentially lived multiple lives already.
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What does reinvention actually require that people maybe
00:13:45
underestimate? So I think for me it's been
00:13:48
about evolution, not revolution, right?
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I've not, at no point have I tried to fundamentally change
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what I am and who I am. I think what I, what I learned,
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especially coming back to the kind of previous ramble I made
00:14:01
about kind of making people feel special and, and understanding
00:14:04
your purpose in, in that conversation, how to, how to
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come across. I realize it's the authenticity
00:14:09
that's the most important thing, right?
00:14:10
I think being true to, to who you are and how you like to
00:14:15
operate in the world, right? How you like to be perceived in
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the world, how you perceive things in the world and sharing
00:14:20
that perspective and and being perceived with that perspective.
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I know that's kind of a bit of a tongue twister has been super
00:14:27
important for me. I've never hidden the fact that
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I that I come from the music industry.
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I talk about it all the time, but I'm quite happy to send
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people YouTube videos of me when I was 16, you know, and just
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being proud of that. I think AC again, I think this
00:14:40
is this. It's easy to say is a, you know,
00:14:44
I guess a blonde haired, 6 foot 3 white guy to just be yourself,
00:14:48
right, Because I, I don't have the, the implicit things that
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other people have that they might hide.
00:14:53
And I grew up in a very poor environment.
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I grew up in a council stay in the UKI grew up in a very
00:14:57
diverse environment. You know, I understand the
00:15:00
challenges that people go through in order to try and and
00:15:03
and be perceived in a way that they feel comfortable with, but
00:15:06
also the hangovers that those perceptions have for those
00:15:10
people too. Presenting yourself as you are
00:15:13
has always been something I've been able to use to tear down
00:15:16
the barriers to creating meaningful relationships.
00:15:20
And I think when people understand that by acting as
00:15:24
yourself, unabashedly and unashamedly yourself, you give
00:15:28
other people permission to do the same thing.
00:15:30
And that's when you get to that comfort zone.
00:15:32
And that's when you get to the place where people are happy to
00:15:34
kind of share and, you know, be themselves in front of you.
00:15:37
And that's it. That's a solid foundation for
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trust. So when it came to kind of
00:15:41
pivoting from music to, to the, to the corporate world, the
00:15:46
thing that I struggled the most with was the code switching
00:15:49
around, you know, the technical terms, these analogies that
00:15:52
people use, like opening the kimono.
00:15:54
I'm still not entirely sure what that means.
00:15:56
And I'm, I'm fairly confident there's nothing good, but I, I
00:15:59
had to adjust to that. Then I realized that the thing
00:16:02
that I was great at was just not using that language.
00:16:04
I tried to like, I tried to affect this kind of voice and,
00:16:08
you know, this, this, this vocabulary.
00:16:11
And then I realized that it is more than me.
00:16:12
So I stopped doing it. And when I stopped, that's when
00:16:15
people are like, Oh, you're straight talker.
00:16:16
And I was like, no, it's just, I just don't fluff the language.
00:16:19
I just, I understand in the music industry probably swear a
00:16:22
lot more than you do in tech, although not as the the gap
00:16:26
isn't as big as maybe you think it is.
00:16:28
But that kind of just bruskness is my personality and directness
00:16:32
is my personality. And just by being that way,
00:16:35
people have always kind of responded above that because
00:16:37
they know that's I'm not doing it for any personal intention.
00:16:40
It's just who I am. And I think being able to kind
00:16:43
of do that has been the thing that's that's carried me and
00:16:46
maybe avoided me having to try and reinvent myself for this new
00:16:49
role and just carried my true self through it.
00:16:52
Yeah, absolutely. So for those listening who may
00:16:55
feel stuck in the wrong chapter of their life, what advice could
00:16:59
you give them? I.
00:16:59
Think the thing that has that has driven me and helped me in
00:17:04
times of of like interest and and and was that Chinese problem
00:17:11
that may live in interesting times, right.
00:17:12
I think that that the, there's a, there's a conception that you
00:17:17
always need to be striving to do something better and bigger,
00:17:20
right? If it's not upwards and it's
00:17:21
backwards and this, and there's a really good book that I read
00:17:24
around Squiggly careers, which is this kind of side to side
00:17:27
journey that most people make. So I think you should have
00:17:28
permission to try new things. I think you should have
00:17:31
permission to not relentlessly try and pursue a ladder of
00:17:34
promotion, promotion, promotion, promotion.
00:17:36
But what I've always tried to do is do things that bring me joy.
00:17:40
I think joy is the most underutilized aspect in the
00:17:45
working world. People see work as as very
00:17:47
separate to the things that they do.
00:17:49
They bring them joy. And I really enjoy my job.
00:17:52
I know it's, you know, coming from a big tech company in this
00:17:55
council, but even when I was working in like a little LED
00:17:56
tech business and, and, you know, earning, you know, peanuts
00:18:00
and I, I really enjoyed the process.
00:18:03
I really enjoyed that and that just through the sheer joy of
00:18:06
the thing that I was doing and I found it.
00:18:08
That's why I found opportunities came to me, you know, or when I
00:18:11
went for an opportunity, I was the one that got picked for it
00:18:13
because I was so happy to be in that role in it.
00:18:16
I think that's a difference maker.
00:18:18
So if you're in a place where you're feeling confused or
00:18:22
you're feeling dejected or feeling a bit burnt out, I go
00:18:25
back to first principles like what do you love?
00:18:26
What do you love doing? And everyone loves like sleeping
00:18:29
in and everyone loves going for you go for a beer on the
00:18:31
weekend. But are there things in life you
00:18:33
find that bring you real joy? And then try and make some
00:18:37
decisions that take you towards that rather than trying to
00:18:40
think, how can I make more money?
00:18:41
And how can I how can I try and get to the rat race or retire
00:18:44
earlier? If you find the joy in things
00:18:46
and try to try to baseline yourself around that, I think
00:18:50
you'll always find the next thing will always come to you
00:18:52
rather than you having to go and seek it out.
00:18:54
Yes. Very well said.
00:18:56
So where can the listeners find you and I guess your music?
00:19:00
Is it still on Spotify and YouTube?
00:19:02
Yeah, we're on Spotify, iTunes, Apple Music, all that kind of
00:19:06
stuff. So yeah, we're it's just the
00:19:08
band's called Malta Defile. I'm sure the transcription will
00:19:11
pick that up better than I said it, But yeah.
00:19:12
So we checked out on YouTube. We, we got a couple of million
00:19:15
players on Spotify. Frustratingly, our Spotify
00:19:18
streaming numbers are lower than I'd like them to be.
00:19:21
We when we were releasing records, people still buying
00:19:23
CDs, we missed a lot of the streams that way, which in
00:19:26
retrospect is painful. Yeah.
00:19:28
So that's, that's the band. Then.
00:19:29
If you want to catch me on LinkedIn, it's, it's just
00:19:32
linkedin.com/matt X Jones. It's my stuff.
00:19:35
That's my professional. Nobody wants me to see.
00:19:38
Come and listen to me tweeting about my my football team,
00:19:41
soccer team. So so avoid me on Twitter unless
00:19:44
you're a Nottingham Forest fun I.
00:19:45
Got that. So make sure the links are in
00:19:48
the show notes. And thank you so much for
00:19:50
joining me. Thank you for having me
00:19:51
pleasure. Matt's story is such a perfect
00:19:55
reminder that reinvention doesn't always mean becoming
00:19:58
someone entirely new. Sometimes it means taking every
00:20:02
strange, loud, chaotic, unexpected chapter with you and
00:20:06
letting it shape the next version of who you are.
00:20:08
From fronting martyr to file to stepping into the world of tech,
00:20:11
AI, and startup leadership, Matt's path is proof that skills
00:20:15
we pick up in one life. Can carry us into.
00:20:17
Another charisma, humility, resilience, reading the room,
00:20:20
making people feel seen. Those things matter whether
00:20:24
you're stage in front of hundreds of people or building
00:20:26
something meant to change the future.
00:20:28
And I loved what he said about Joy not chasing the ladder just
00:20:31
because we're told to climb it, but paying attention to what
00:20:34
actually makes us feel alive. Because sometimes the next plot
00:20:37
twist doesn't come from forcing A reinvention.
00:20:39
Sometimes it comes from finally letting yourself evolve.
00:20:43
A huge thank you to Matt for joining me on Plot Twist Radio.
00:20:46
You can find his former band Martyr to file wherever you
00:20:49
stream music, and I'll have Matt's links in the show notes.
00:20:52
Until next time, my name is Aaron and this is Plot Swiss
00:20:54
Radio.