Chad Boudreaux on Mob Justice, Chicago Organized Crime, and Writing Thrillers with Real DOJ Experience

[00:00:00] Welcome to Plot Twist Radio, the show where creativity, storytelling, and the unpredictable path of the creative life all collide. I'm your host, Erin Egnatz. Hello and welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. It's great to have you. Before we get going, can you tell the audience a little bit about yourself? Yeah, so my name is Chad Boudreaux and I am primarily a lawyer by trade, but I write novels on the side and I have three novels out right now.

[00:00:29] The last one is Mob Justice. Very cool. Like you said, you've had a career most thriller writers would probably kill for, pun intended. The DOJ, Homeland Security, Organized Crime Investigations. At what point did you realize, I need to turn this into something fictitious? So my first book, Scavenger Hunt, I started writing long ago. It was published three years ago, but I started it when I was in my late 20s.

[00:00:56] And I was working at the Department of Justice right after 9-11. Washington, D.C. was full of energy. The main Justice Department was fascinating to me and it just really inspired me to write a story about terrorism. Makes sense. So your newest book out, I was just reading a little bit about it. Can you tell the audience a little bit about it without, of course, giving away any spoilers? Sure. So the book is Mob Justice and it primarily takes place in D.C. and Chicago.

[00:01:25] And it relates to a protagonist in the book, Blake Hudson. Blake is the protagonist from my first book, Scavenger Hunt, who survived. That's the spoiler. But in Mob Justice, he kind of starts off in the principal's office, if you will, and is moved from the attorney general's office to the organized crime strike force. While at the strike force, he gets caught up in prosecuting the mafia in Chicago.

[00:01:52] So think Chicago Outfit, where Al Capone got started and the Northside gang, which was the rival gang against Capone. And this book takes place in real time. And both of those gangs have been resurrected. And Blake is primarily battling the consigliere for the Chicago Outfit, who, like Blake, is a Supreme Court clerk. But instead of Blake, went to the dark side. Ah, love it.

[00:02:19] I'm from the Chicago area, so the mob is very well known here, especially Capone and all of his antics. So I love that you chose that. When you started the book, what was your writing process like? Did you kind of research the history a bit or did you kind of just go with it and then fill it in with some of the historical parts? Yeah. So for the subject matter expertise, I had most of it.

[00:02:44] I didn't know a whole lot about wiretapping, and so I asked friends in the FBI to help me with that, and they were marvelous. And I didn't know there was a whole vernacular around wiretapping. So that made it into the book as part of research. I also spent a lot of time in Chicago on site visiting some key areas that made their way in the book, including the opening scene where we're at the hospital.

[00:03:06] I got kicked out of the hospital. I went to City Hall and snuck in on a Saturday in the Justice of the Peace back entrance and to find an elevator that goes down to hidden tunnels. And I got kicked out of City Hall for doing that. So I had a lot of fun, got into a little trouble, but a lot of research on site. And then I watched a lot of mob movies. And so, you know, the mob movies can kind of turn into a meme very quickly.

[00:03:37] And so I tried to shy away from that. But those people who are familiar with mob history and the cinema around it, you'll find little nuggets in the book that are probably not going to jump out to the casual reader. That makes sense. So your villains, they feel very intelligent and strategic rather than cartoonish. What was that the intention or was it, you know, kind of just how they evolved as you were writing?

[00:04:05] Yeah, in a lot of my books, the so-called bad guys and bad girls, I try to make them real. And in our world and human nature, it's not always binary like that. And so they have a true character and sometimes they're bad and sometimes you can find good in them. And I think in Mob Justice, particularly with the consigliere Enzo Renzi, you know, a lot of people already have told me that they fell in love with Enzo Renzi. Some people like him more than my protagonist.

[00:04:35] So I tried to give a measured view of humanity. And, you know, sometimes it endears the reader to certain characters that otherwise would be portrayed as bad. And yes, as I was going through it, I liked Enzo a lot. He was fascinating because he seems trapped between morality and loyalty, which, I mean, a lot of us go along with it. Obviously, a lot of us aren't involved in the mob, thank God.

[00:05:01] But so what basically drew you to writing characters like that versus Blake? Yeah, so I, you know, Blake is, you know, a pretty interesting character. I won't say that he's complicated, but maybe he is. You know, he's he is intelligent. He's, you know, a good looking guy, but he's kind of naive and he gets in trouble and he doesn't do what he's supposed to do all the time. And so what I really wanted was a character that, you know.

[00:05:31] I guess was kind of the alter ego of Blake and on the dark side and somebody he could relate to. So if you've ever watched the movie Heat, you know, there's this there's that scene where Robert De Niro and Pacino sit down at the table together and you've got the, you know, the criminal on one side and then the detective on the other side. And they relate to one another in a way that nobody else can relate to them. They have all these things in common, including how they view the world. And there's a scene like that.

[00:05:59] You know, that probably inspired me to write a scene like that in my book where Enzo sits down with Blake. And as a part of that scene, they learn that they have things in common that they can't really share with anybody else just because of their background. And one chose to go one way and one chose to go the other. And I think that dynamic was the impetus for creating a character like Enzo because I just couldn't have that scene without that kind of character.

[00:06:27] So the book explores hidden networks of influence and power. Do you think real power in America is often less visible than people assume? No, I don't. And it makes it fun to write. I mean, Robert Lotham was really good at always talking about like the hidden hand behind everything that's going on. I think, you know, money obviously can be hidden and that propels a lot of power.

[00:06:52] And there's institutions that, you know, softly, silently have power to to change, you know, our communities and our world. But I don't think like being behind the scenes at the highest levels of government, we're just really not that good. And we're not as smart as everybody. And I'm saying we I'm not in that circle anymore. But the people who run things just I mean, some of them are better than others, but they're just not they're not that sophisticated. So I don't think so.

[00:07:22] So that makes sense. Chris Ray, he praised the book's authenticity, which is awesome. When someone with that background says that, does it hit differently? It does. And for me, because I'm writing about law enforcement, intelligence and, you know, the law, that was kind of the first hurdle that I had to get over with scavenger hunt. If I got anything wrong about what I was talking about, my book would have been dead.

[00:07:50] And so for me, I had to get over that hurdle. And then, you know, luckily for me, that those communities really liked my book and they've they've helped promote my book, both all of my books, really. But particularly the scavenger hunt series. But somebody like Chris Ray, who actually I saw on Saturday at a funeral of a former colleague of ours to have him, you know, like my books, read my books and endorse my book. That was huge. And I'm very thankful for him for doing that.

[00:08:20] Yeah, that's incredible. So let's shift over to the writing process. When you sit down to write, do you approach scenes more like a lawyer building a case or like a filmmaker building sequences? The latter, definitely the latter. So one of the things I don't want to do with my books is lard them with a bunch of legalese or, you know, institutional bureaucracy, because I can talk a lot about that.

[00:08:46] And I do take my readers behind the scenes to kind of share how things really work and the areas that I'm talking about or writing about. But, you know, literally, I usually go from the treadmill where I'm listening to some fast paced music to my computer and I'm writing like I'm directing a film. So when you start a project, do you outline or are you like a pantser? I'm a pantser. Every time I sit down to write, I cannot do an outline and I just kind of take it where it wants to go. But a lot of people like to do outlines.

[00:09:17] I actually start with the title of my book first and that keeps me grounded somehow. And then I will do what I would call a scaffolding outline. It's usually 50 chapters and I aim for 2000 words a chapter. And I do that because I have, you know, I have some ADHD. And when the great thing about moving from the legal world, which everything is so structured, there's a certain way to write.

[00:09:43] You have to say certain words the right way, certain terms the right way. When you get into writing fiction, there's really no holds barred, at least until you, you know, face your publisher. But for me, that's good and bad. So I love having the freedom to write whatever I want to write. But if I don't have some structure around what I'm writing, then I will just, I will go numb and I won't get anything done. So I think I am an outline person, at least up to a point.

[00:10:12] I'd say of the 50 chapters, when I get to about chapter 20, my outline's trash after that. It's the characters have taken over the book. And I really, you know, don't really know what's going to happen for the most part until I get into the scene and with the characters. Do you find certain scenes harder to write than others? Action scenes.

[00:10:39] Action scenes are really hard to write in thrillers because you can, if now, in that case, if you get into an action scene, like in Mob Justice, I have a scene where there's a bunch of action scenes, but there's one where there's a shootout in the streets of Chicago. And again, you can go back to, and I didn't write this book based upon me watching the movie Heat,

[00:11:01] but there's a great, you know, scene in Heat where it's like 10 or 15 minutes long and they are firing guns and it's so real and harrowing. And, you know, I kind of wanted to capture a scene that demonstrated that kind of action. But you can really quickly lose your readers if you just stay too much into that action scene.

[00:11:25] And so a lot of it has to be, you know, you have to demonstrate it rather than say it. So you can do it a lot through the characters' words. But if you're just shooting for 15 pages, which I would be inclined to do because I like that kind of action. When I went and Scavenger Hunt had some scenes like that and they were too long and my editor walked me through it and said, this doesn't convey well. And it was a good lesson learned. She was right.

[00:11:53] And we always have to listen to our editors, even though that's the worst part for me. I don't want to listen to them at that point, but they're there for a reason, right? It's good when they're really hard and gentle. Yes, exactly. Exactly. So if Mob Justice became a streaming series tomorrow, which honestly it has the bones for it, who's your dream cast? Tom Cruise, for sure, because it's all about the dollars at that point. So you want a heavy hitter.

[00:12:23] I don't know. So I kind of like the character, and your listeners will know his name, and I've forgotten his name. But he is the main character in Jack Carr's Terminal-less Dark Wolf. He was also the running back for Friday Night Lights series. But anyway, he's a Canadian actor, and he would probably make a good Blake Hudson. I could see that. I know who you're talking about.

[00:12:52] I can't think of his name, but I know who you're talking about. Taylor something. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's a good one. Yeah, I could see that. So what's your ideal reading environment? We know about your writing, but how about your reading environment? So I kind of switch between biographies and books in the genre like mine. You know, I love Robert Ludlam. I've mentioned him earlier. You know, he's obviously passed on.

[00:13:16] And it's funny because when they did AI on my first book, they were able to tie back who I write like. And it wasn't that I wrote like Robert Ludlam. I wrote like one of Robert Ludlam's posthumous writers, the ones that took over his Bourne series, which makes perfect sense because he's copying Robert Ludlam. And we're kind of all are copying Robert Ludlam. So but I was hoping I would be like Robert Ludlam. But I'm like his I'm like the fake Robert Ludlam.

[00:13:46] So but I'm OK with that. Hey, that's so good. That works. So what is up next for you? There'll be new books in the same series. So Homecoming Queen was my second book. It'll probably be the only off brand book I have. It's a love song in my hometown and maybe the best book I ever write. But, you know, it's once I was writing that, I got a call for more in the Scavenger Hunt series. And so the all my stories that are in my head can neatly fit within that series.

[00:14:14] And so my next book is tentatively called Borderfall, and it'll be mostly mostly take place on the southern border on one side, Mexico, the other side, Nogales, Arizona. And I'll be bringing back a character in Scavenger Hunt named Jake Reed, who was the CIA ground branch. I'm more it's not a dark book, but he's a darker character. And and he will be there.

[00:14:40] And then Blake Hudson will make a cameo appearance for a few chapters as well. And probably about a third of the way through that book now. Oh, very cool. So where can the listeners find you? So I have a website that's just my name. It's Chad Boudreau dot com. C-H-A-D-B-O-U-D-R-E-A-U-X. And you can learn more about me and my books and what's going on. Perfect. I will make sure that that is linked in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:15:11] Yes, my pleasure. Thank you.